dedications at first level?


Homebrew and House Rules


What are people's experiences with allowing dedications at first level? (I figure this must be a popular houserule, there having been a lot of annoyance at it not being that way in RAW.)


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

*still* waiting to get play in, but one thing that was a pleasant surprise while building characters with extra feats at every odd level, and dedication feats being allowed to be taken 1 level earlier than listed, is that it's actually very easy to build such a character in Hero Lab.

The "permanent added abilities" section lets you add anything to your character disregarding restrictions and prerequisites, so that's where all my bonus feats are added. This lets me put all the early multiclassing stuff in one spot with no errors reported for the character.

Probably not too relevant to your question, but it felt nice when I was building characters!


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Apparently one of the upcoming books has an elf heritage that gives you a dedication feat at 1st level, so we now have a recommended way to grant that ability.


David knott 242 wrote:
Apparently one of the upcoming books has an elf heritage that gives you a dedication feat at 1st level, so we now have a recommended way to grant that ability.

But why as Elf heritage.

Is that hard that some character from let's say from 20 to 30 years old had experienced basic stuff in more than a discipline?

I could be harsh and even upset, but sometimes I can hardly understand the creators.


David knott 242 wrote:

Apparently one of the upcoming books has an elf heritage that gives you a dedication feat at 1st level, so we now have a recommended way to grant that ability.

<nod> Hearing of that indication that 1st-level dedications might not be anathema to the devs after all is what prompted me to post. I look forward to learning what strings they put on it, if any.

WatersLethe wrote:
*still* waiting to get play in, but one thing that was a pleasant surprise while building characters with extra feats at every odd level, and dedication feats being allowed to be taken 1 level earlier than listed, is that it's actually very easy to build such a character in Hero Lab.

That's an odd way to put it when they're all listed at 2nd AFAIK---are there some that aren't that I've missed, or are you just futureproofing your houserules?


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

But if you are homebrewing, there is nothing to stop you from giving any heritage to any ancestry. That is how we can have nonh-human half-elves and half-orcs, for example.


David knott 242 wrote:

But if you are homebrewing, there is nothing to stop you from giving any heritage to any ancestry. That is how we can have nonh-human half-elves and half-orcs, for example.

That goes for everything.

My point is "why would only an elf be able to be proficient in his class and very slightly in another one by lvl 1 ?".

Let's set apart the fact that we can modify a base the way we want.
It's not like having darkvision, or the blood of the dwarves.

It's simply saying that you are a former XXXXXXX which happened to learn about some other activities in the past Y years.

Consider it like a job in real life.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

Apparently one of the upcoming books has an elf heritage that gives you a dedication feat at 1st level, so we now have a recommended way to grant that ability.

<nod> Hearing of that indication that 1st-level dedications might not be anathema to the devs after all is what prompted me to post. I look forward to learning what strings they put on it, if any.

WatersLethe wrote:
*still* waiting to get play in, but one thing that was a pleasant surprise while building characters with extra feats at every odd level, and dedication feats being allowed to be taken 1 level earlier than listed, is that it's actually very easy to build such a character in Hero Lab.
That's an odd way to put it when they're all listed at 2nd AFAIK---are there some that aren't that I've missed, or are you just futureproofing your houserules?

All the feats associated with the dedication can be taken a level earlier too. So you can take the 4th level feats at 3rd, etc.

For the spellcasting multiclass feats, I'm letting them take the feat at 3rd but not get access to 1st level spells until 4th. It's a 'dead' feat for a level, but it can be situationally better to do it that way.


K1 wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

But if you are homebrewing, there is nothing to stop you from giving any heritage to any ancestry. That is how we can have nonh-human half-elves and half-orcs, for example.

That goes for everything.

My point is "why would only an elf be able to be proficient in his class and very slightly in another one by lvl 1 ?".

Let's set apart the fact that we can modify a base the way we want.
It's not like having darkvision, or the blood of the dwarves.

It's simply saying that you are a former XXXXXXX which happened to learn about some other activities in the past Y years.

Consider it like a job in real life.

Elves live a very long time. It is not unreasonable to assume that even a very young elf would have had time to pick up the basics of another class.

Also, Elves traditionally blend arcane and martial ; an eleven warrior is often seen to cast basic spells in most fantasies. While that’s a more specific multi class, it does pave the way for the idea.

Thirdly it’s not limited to elves. By a quirk of the rules, half elves would also be able to pick up the ability.


Quote:


Thirdly it’s not limited to elves. By a quirk of the rules, half elves would also be able to pick up the ability.

That is not correct, half-elf is an heritage, the possibility to pick up a dedication at level 1 also


Seisho wrote:
Quote:


Thirdly it’s not limited to elves. By a quirk of the rules, half elves would also be able to pick up the ability.

That is not correct, half-elf is an heritage, the possibility to pick up a dedication at level 1 also

Not quite sure what point you are trying to make. Yes, half elf is a heritage, but one of their 1st level feats (Elf avatar) enables them to pick up the heritage of their elf parent, including the ability to get a dedication feat at first level. Depending on the gm, their other race could possibly be any other race, meaning that any race could theoretically get it, though not all gms would allow it. At the very least, humans with the half elf heritage would be able to get it - which was the point that I made: it’s not limited to elves.

Shadow Lodge

Gavmania wrote:
Seisho wrote:
Quote:


Thirdly it’s not limited to elves. By a quirk of the rules, half elves would also be able to pick up the ability.

That is not correct, half-elf is an heritage, the possibility to pick up a dedication at level 1 also

Not quite sure what point you are trying to make. Yes, half elf is a heritage, but one of their 1st level feats (Elf avatar) enables them to pick up the heritage of their elf parent, including the ability to get a dedication feat at first level. Depending on the gm, their other race could possibly be any other race, meaning that any race could theoretically get it, though not all gms would allow it. At the very least, humans with the half elf heritage would be able to get it - which was the point that I made: it’s not limited to elves.

Well, technically that could work, but there is a big 'GM's Discretion' issue:

The Elf Avatism feat does allow you to take an Elf Heritage, but it includes a 'You typically can’t select a heritage that depends on or improves an elven feature you don’t have' caveat.

Ancient Elf is the heritage that grants you a multiclass dedication feat at character creation, but the very beginning of the text is 'In your long life, you’ve dabbled in many paths and many styles.' which indicates the long lifespan of elves is a bit of a prerequisite: Half-Elves 'only' live about 150 years compared to 600 years for full elves, so you could argue they just don't live long enough to qualify as 'Ancient'.

So, your mileage may vary greatly with this.


Taja the Barbarian wrote:
Gavmania wrote:
Seisho wrote:
Quote:


Thirdly it’s not limited to elves. By a quirk of the rules, half elves would also be able to pick up the ability.

That is not correct, half-elf is an heritage, the possibility to pick up a dedication at level 1 also

Not quite sure what point you are trying to make. Yes, half elf is a heritage, but one of their 1st level feats (Elf avatar) enables them to pick up the heritage of their elf parent, including the ability to get a dedication feat at first level. Depending on the gm, their other race could possibly be any other race, meaning that any race could theoretically get it, though not all gms would allow it. At the very least, humans with the half elf heritage would be able to get it - which was the point that I made: it’s not limited to elves.

Well, technically that could work, but there is a big 'GM's Discretion' issue:

The Elf Avatism feat does allow you to take an Elf Heritage, but it includes a 'You typically can’t select a heritage that depends on or improves an elven feature you don’t have' caveat.

Ancient Elf is the heritage that grants you a multiclass dedication feat at character creation, but the very beginning of the text is 'In your long life, you’ve dabbled in many paths and many styles.' which indicates the long lifespan of elves is a bit of a prerequisite: Half-Elves 'only' live about 150 years compared to 600 years for full elves, so you could argue they just don't live long enough to qualify as 'Ancient'.

So, your mileage may vary greatly with this.

Ancient elf has this requirement spelt out in its prerequisites - you have to be over 100 years old, which is 50 years under the age limit for being a half elf (though it means your character is probably starting to go a bit grey)

Shadow Lodge

Tender Tendrils wrote:
Taja the Barbarian wrote:
Gavmania wrote:
Seisho wrote:
Quote:


Thirdly it’s not limited to elves. By a quirk of the rules, half elves would also be able to pick up the ability.

That is not correct, half-elf is an heritage, the possibility to pick up a dedication at level 1 also

Not quite sure what point you are trying to make. Yes, half elf is a heritage, but one of their 1st level feats (Elf avatar) enables them to pick up the heritage of their elf parent, including the ability to get a dedication feat at first level. Depending on the gm, their other race could possibly be any other race, meaning that any race could theoretically get it, though not all gms would allow it. At the very least, humans with the half elf heritage would be able to get it - which was the point that I made: it’s not limited to elves.

Well, technically that could work, but there is a big 'GM's Discretion' issue:

The Elf Avatism feat does allow you to take an Elf Heritage, but it includes a 'You typically can’t select a heritage that depends on or improves an elven feature you don’t have' caveat.

Ancient Elf is the heritage that grants you a multiclass dedication feat at character creation, but the very beginning of the text is 'In your long life, you’ve dabbled in many paths and many styles.' which indicates the long lifespan of elves is a bit of a prerequisite: Half-Elves 'only' live about 150 years compared to 600 years for full elves, so you could argue they just don't live long enough to qualify as 'Ancient'.

So, your mileage may vary greatly with this.

Ancient elf has this requirement spelt out in its prerequisites - you have to be over 100 years old, which is 50 years under the age limit for being a half elf (though it means your character is probably starting to go a bit grey)

The Ancestral Longevity feat has this specific prerequisite: the Ancient Elf Heritage does not (at least, not in the online version).


Taja the Barbarian wrote:
Tender Tendrils wrote:
Taja the Barbarian wrote:
Gavmania wrote:
Seisho wrote:
Quote:


Thirdly it’s not limited to elves. By a quirk of the rules, half elves would also be able to pick up the ability.

That is not correct, half-elf is an heritage, the possibility to pick up a dedication at level 1 also

Not quite sure what point you are trying to make. Yes, half elf is a heritage, but one of their 1st level feats (Elf avatar) enables them to pick up the heritage of their elf parent, including the ability to get a dedication feat at first level. Depending on the gm, their other race could possibly be any other race, meaning that any race could theoretically get it, though not all gms would allow it. At the very least, humans with the half elf heritage would be able to get it - which was the point that I made: it’s not limited to elves.

Well, technically that could work, but there is a big 'GM's Discretion' issue:

The Elf Avatism feat does allow you to take an Elf Heritage, but it includes a 'You typically can’t select a heritage that depends on or improves an elven feature you don’t have' caveat.

Ancient Elf is the heritage that grants you a multiclass dedication feat at character creation, but the very beginning of the text is 'In your long life, you’ve dabbled in many paths and many styles.' which indicates the long lifespan of elves is a bit of a prerequisite: Half-Elves 'only' live about 150 years compared to 600 years for full elves, so you could argue they just don't live long enough to qualify as 'Ancient'.

So, your mileage may vary greatly with this.

Ancient elf has this requirement spelt out in its prerequisites - you have to be over 100 years old, which is 50 years under the age limit for being a half elf (though it means your character is probably starting to go a bit grey)
The...

It does appear that I got those mixed up, yes (though I think it would be reasonable to place the soft age requirement at roughly the same place as ancestral longevity)

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