Warpriest's sacred weapon and the Weapon of the Chosen Feat


Rules Questions


Does a Warpriest's sacred weapon count as their deity's favored weapon for purposes of using the Weapon of the Chosen feat line?


Only if it is the favored weapon.

Silver Crusade

Too bad so few deities have the longspear as their favored weapon. It's the best simple weapon by a huge margin, especially when combined with reach tactics.


I disagree that longspear is the "best" simple weapon. I think morningstar, cestus, and dagger are pretty good contenders. Not so say that reach tactics are not worth using , in which case longspear is your only simple weapon option (aside from boarding Pike which is really just a specialty longspear).


Why do you need to use a simple weapon? Warpriests get martial weapon proficiency.

Silver Crusade

baggageboy wrote:
I disagree that longspear is the "best" simple weapon.

Thousands of years of Asian martial arts tradition disagrees [Wikipedia: Qiang]. In Pathfinder terms, what other weapon can nearly every 1st level PC use to delivers multiple attacks per round at full BaB and damage? P.s. I've wandered off-topic, so maybe ignore this post.


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Magda Luckbender wrote:
baggageboy wrote:
I disagree that longspear is the "best" simple weapon.
Thousands of years of Asian martial arts tradition disagrees [Wikipedia: Qiang]. In Pathfinder terms, what other weapon can nearly every 1st level PC use to delivers multiple attacks per round at full BaB and damage? P.s. I've wandered off-topic, so maybe ignore this post.

The Greeks and every other ancient civilization also disagree. The long spear was a revolutionary weapon as much as the longbow, crossbow, and black powder firearms. It forever changed how warfare was done. It was an incredible weapon for its time, so much so that it’s first major battle (the battle of Megiddo) is what our coined term “Armageddon” is based on. The longspear is legit


We are off topic so this will be my only reply. I'm not saying that longspear is not a one of the best simple weapons, it is. I'm also not disputing the spear's dominance on pre firearm battlefields.

However...
Pathfinder is a game and longspear as a game weapon has several disadvantages it is a two handed weapon which means it can't be used in a grapple, and can't be used with a shield without special feat investment. Also being a reach weapon while frequently an advantage it is also a disadvantage in many common setting that the game plays in like buildings and tight dungeons.

Morningstar is a 1 handed weapon that does two damage types simultaneously. It can be wielded in two hands for extra damage, or 1 handed in a grapple or with a shield.

Dagger offers two types of damage can be used with finesse, and can be thrown and has an increased crit range.

Cestus offers two types of damage, can be finessed, can't be disarmed and doesn't have to be drawn.

TLDR: there are several good simple weapon choices out there. Longspear is one of those, but it is not necessary the "best."


Magda Luckbender wrote:
Too bad so few deities have the longspear as their favored weapon.

This statement makes no sense. If you use the deity's favored weapon, you don't want it to be a simple weapon (as martial/exotic weapons have better stats). Clerics, Warpriests, Inquisitors, Zealot Vigilantes, and Reliquarian Occultists are proficient with their deity's favored weapon. Paladins and Antipaladins have martial proficiency. I don't think Shamans, Oracles, Hunters, Rangers, Filidh Bards, Fey Trickster Mesmerists, Onmyoji or Involutionist Spiritualists, or Jinyiwei Investigators qualify for WotC. So I guess the only ones who care about their deity's favored weapon's proficiency classification are Nature Fang Druids, and those aren't proficient with longspear anyway, which means a martial weapon comes at the same cost as a longspear.

You should rather lament that there are no dieties for most of the high damage or multiple damage type reach weapons. Fun fact: The god of evoiding responsibility is the best deity for reach weapon users (Tepoztopilli).

Oh and please, don't call something the "best" weapon. This is Pathfinder, there is no such thing as general a "best" anything. It always depends on the circumstances. Always. Just for example, a longspear is certainly not the best simple weapon for a Rogue, or anyone without proficiency in simple weapons (Druid, Monk, Wizard, Shifter).

Shadow Lodge

CMantle wrote:
Magda Luckbender wrote:
baggageboy wrote:
I disagree that longspear is the "best" simple weapon.
Thousands of years of Asian martial arts tradition disagrees [Wikipedia: Qiang]. In Pathfinder terms, what other weapon can nearly every 1st level PC use to delivers multiple attacks per round at full BaB and damage? P.s. I've wandered off-topic, so maybe ignore this post.
The Greeks and every other ancient civilization also disagree. The long spear was a revolutionary weapon as much as the longbow, crossbow, and black powder firearms. It forever changed how warfare was done. It was an incredible weapon for its time, so much so that it’s first major battle (the battle of Megiddo) is what our coined term “Armageddon” is based on. The longspear is legit
The Longspear was good if:
  • You are fighting in a tight, disciplined, military formation,
  • You are fighting in open terrain, and
  • Your flanks and rear are somehow protected.
If any of these conditions aren't met, you are probably in deep, deep trouble.

It's worth noting that when the Romans defeated the Macedonian Phalanx, they were using 18" short swords to massacre men using 18' spears.

As for the original question:

  • Sacred Weapon can be used with your diety's favored weapon and any weapon you have the 'Weapon Focus' feat in.
  • Therefore, your diety's favored weapon is always a sacred weapon for you, but not all sacred weapon are your diety's favored weapon (The fact that an angry woman is human does not mean all humans are angry women).
  • Weapon of the Chosen specifically requires your diety's favorite weapon, so you can not use this feat with a weapon that is not your diety's favored weapon, even if it happens to be a sacred weapon for you.

Silver Crusade

Taja the Barbarian wrote:
The Longspear was good if:
  • You are fighting in a tight, disciplined, military formation ...
  • This is a very common incorrect opinion. [Youtube: Spears are better than swords]. In fact, a spear is vastly superior to a sword in an unarmored one-on-one fight. This makes sense, as spears are primary battle weapons, while swords are typically sidearms. Sword is to spear as handgun is to rifle.


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    Derklord wrote:
    This statement makes no sense. If you use the deity's favored weapon, you don't want it to be a simple weapon

    It doesn't have to make sense. The lady likes her Longspears. That's good enough for me. Meanwhile, I've seen Magda make some scary-powerful characters with her Reach pole arms. If she craves a longspear-wielding deity, my guess is that she has some specific build in mind for it. But even if it is just her fancy, there's no need to be all critical about it.

    baggageboy wrote:

    Morningstar is a 1 handed weapon that does two damage types simultaneously. It can be wielded in two hands for extra damage, or 1 handed in a grapple or with a shield.

    Dagger offers two types of damage can be used with finesse, and can be thrown and has an increased crit range.
    Cestus offers two types of damage, can be finessed, can't be disarmed and doesn't have to be drawn.

    And a Shortspear is 1 handed, which means it can be used with a Shield. It is both a Melee and Ranged weapon.

    Honestly, I am not a big fan of Reach Weapons for my characters. I prefer to make martial characters that have good Ranged and Melee Options. If I run into an Opponent with better Reach than mine, I shoot it.

    CMantle wrote:
    The Greeks and every other ancient civilization also disagree.

    CM, Magda, every time someone tries to bring realism into a fantasy argument, somewhere in the world a catgirl dies. That being said, I love that Lindy Beige video.


    TuringTest wrote:
    Does a Warpriest's sacred weapon count as their deity's favored weapon for purposes of using the Weapon of the Chosen feat line?

    Deities have their favored weapons. There is a list of them on archives of nethys. A deity's favored weapon gets Sacred Weapon benefits and it can be used with Weapon of the Chosen.

    I have to say, though, I'm not super sanguine about builds that depend on it.

    A Warpriest does not need to take Weapon Focus in order to get Sacred Weapon Benefits for her deity's favored weapon, so Weapon Focus becomes a Feat Tax for taking Weapon of the Chosen.

    Weapon of the Chosen is nice, bypassing Damage Reduction, but Warpriests can cast Cleric Spells and buff themselves with them as a Swift Action. I'd have you just use Spells to bypass DR. Weapon Against Evil and Align Weapon come to mind.

    Also, just carry an assortment: something Blunt, 2 things sharp. Something Silver, something Adamantine. Something Cold Iron, something new, something borrowed, something new. Right tool for the job.

    Shadow Lodge

    Magda Luckbender wrote:
    Taja the Barbarian wrote:
    The Longspear was good if:
  • You are fighting in a tight, disciplined, military formation ...
  • This is a very common incorrect opinion. [Youtube: Spears are better than swords]. In fact, a spear is vastly superior to a sword in an unarmored one-on-one fight. This makes sense, as spears are primary battle weapons, while swords are typically sidearms. Sword is to spear as handgun is to rifle.

    Spears are okay in close combat, but longspears are not: There is a world of difference between a 5' spear and a 20' spear like the Macedonians used.


    That video is not only completely unrealistic*, it's deliberately stacked against the sword-users. The biggest offense is that the people in the video aren't playing combat, they're playing tag. A hit is a hit, even if in actual combat, it wouldn't have made any injury due to armor. A slight poke with a stick doesn't penetrate even light armor, and thus shouldn't count.
    There's also the fights with a one-handed sword without a shield, and the group fights near the end where the sword-users charge in like idiots.

    Of course, the video never shows longspears at all, so isn't actually relevant for the discussion.

    *) Even beyond the issue that you can't accurarely simulate lethal fighting if you aren't actually trying to injure or kill your opponent.

    Seriously, most wars or even most battles were not won by spears (remember, polearms are not spears). The Romans didn't use spears and the only enemies they had big problems with used either lots of cavalry (especially mounted archers), or guerrilla tactics. No surprise there, as spears are primarily a weapon against cavalry, which the Romans were light on.
    Spearbearers certainly fought in many medieval battles, but more because spears are cheap and easy to mass-produce, and require little training, not ebcause the weapon itself is that good - back than, troop numbers won wars more than anything else. One-handed spears lose much of their benefit against cavalry, because it's harder to injure an opponent or even a horse with a spear than with a sword. Two-handed spears lack the defense against archers that a shield brought, makign them rather unthreatening if you have archers, crossbowman, or firearms. Unless they're exhausted from the march and charge in like imbeciles (*cough* Bannockburn *cough*), that is. Overall, spears don't really do much against armored oponents, especially against platemail (which is why weapons like the bec de corbin or the lucerne hammer were developed).

    Scott Wilhelm wrote:
    And a Shortspear is 1 handed, which means it can be used with a Shield. It is both a Melee and Ranged weapon.

    A shortspear is not a longspear.


    Scott Wilhelm wrote:
    And a Shortspear is 1 handed, which means it can be used with a Shield. It is both a Melee and Ranged weapon.
    Derklord wrote:
    A shortspear is not a longspear.

    Look, it's not you: it's me. I'm tired, and I don't want to feel pressured to perform.

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