I am GM for a Jade Regent campaign. We are in book 2, "Night Of Frozen Shadows", and are currently investigating a lead on the sword Suishen. One of my party is riding a horse that has taken significant damage, effectively reducing it's current HP from 19 to 1, and casts a spell called Scarify to convert the lethal damage the horse has taken into non lethat damage. The spell stated that it only works as a "healing" spell in the sense that it stops bleeding. My question is, would this knock the horse unconscious? The MAX HP of the horse is 19. The lethat damage taken is 18, leaving it with a current HP of 1. If the spell converts 14 points of lethal damage into non lethat damage it would have 1 current HP, 14 non lethat dmg, and 4 lethal dmg. Am I correct in stating that the horse would fall unconscious? The spell doesn't restore health, it only converts it, which logically means that the horse doesn't get 14 points of health back because that damage is already dealt but is being converted into non lethal damage (still damage by technicality because it can knock a character out if it exceeds it's current HP) which means that the horse's non lethal damage total is greater than it's current HP (14>1) please help me affirm my decision or point out very clearly why I am incorrect, thanks!
No. It converts the lethal damage into nonlethal.. meaning the horse now has 15 HP, and 14 nonlethal damage.
It doesn't say that the spell ONLY works as healing to stop bleeding, it says "This effect counts as healing for the purpose of stopping bleed damage."
It adds that because magical healing always stops bleeding, but this spell isn't a healing spell, it's a necromancy spell, without the subtype [healing]. *all* of those spells stop bleeding, what this spell is saying is that regardless of it *not* being a healing spell, the spell also stops any bleeding.
So what this spell actually does is transfer X Lethal damage into nonlethal damage, as well as stops bleeding.
You might be thinking this spell is really good or something, but functionally the horse is still only 2 Hit Point away from being unconscious (0HP is staggered, not unconscious). Whether it takes that as lethal damage or nonlethal doesn't matter, because if it gets to 16 Nonlethal damage at 15HP, it's unconscious, and if it drops to 13HP and has 14 nonlethal damage, it's unconscious. All this spell does is put a buffer between unconsciousness and death, and helps the creature heal faster (bc nonlethal damage naturally heals at a quicker rate)
TL DR? The horse is not unconscious after casting this spell
If the spell converts 14 points of lethal damage into non lethat damage it would have 1 current HP, 14 non lethat dmg, and 4 lethal dmg.
I think this is where you're getting tripped up. Nonlethal damage never (never) effects a characters current hit points. You keep track of nonlethal damage 100% separately, and if at any point the nonlethal damage amount becomes more than current HP, the creature falls unconscious (but does not start dying).
EDIT: Also where you're getting tripped up is in your understanding of the rules. Too often players and GMs read a phrase like: "This effect counts as healing for the purpose of stopping bleed damage" and try to extrapolate that this means that this spell is incapable of healing (which is sort of what converting lethal to nonlethal does), and so you completely disregard what the spell already told you it does. Phrases like this tacked on the end of spells, feats, class abilities, etc... almost always *ADD* to the ability, instead of restrict. Restrictions are normally clearly stated, and will actually use words like "only" or "must be" or "restricted to." Don't read those words in if they aren't there
Also, when healed by a different effect (say cure light wounds, or channel energy), nonlethal is healed at the same time as lethal damage.
So in this example:
Horse has 1 hp of 19 and 0 nonlethal: Effective Health 1
*Someone casts Scarify on the Horse for 14 points of conversion
Horse has 15 hp of 19 and 14 nonlethal: Effective Health 1
*Cleric channels energy to heal for 5
Horse has 19 hp of 19 and 9 nonlethal: Effective Health 10
The only reason Scarify is useful (besides being necromancy and not being a cure spell) is that it allows you to effectively 'double dip' other forms of healing.
It's implied by Firebug's post, but one correction to CMantle's - nonlethal damage equal to your hit points drops you unconscious. There is no equivalent to staggered at zero HP if you have any nonlethal damage.
(In my best Trump debates impression) ‘Wrong.’
“Instead, when your nonlethal damage equals your current hit points, you’re staggered (see below), and when it exceeds your current hit points, you fall unconscious.”
I’ll check the actual Core Rulebook when I can, but every online resource i’ve found has this rule.
The Trump imitation had me thinking you were either lying or playing silly, CMantle. It may be different in America but he's not associated with telling the truth overseas.
Anyway, I got around to checking and you're actually right despite that. Dunno where the unconscious at zero thing came from - maybe I was thinking of D&D 3.0, where it was called subdual damage?