[Spheres of Power] Famine Spirit - advice and questions


Advice and Rules Questions


I came across the Famine Spirit archetype for the Shifter class, and I want to make a build focused on eating enemies via its Swallow Whole ability.

First I have a couple of rules questions...

1) The Famine Spirit can explicitly swallow enemies larger than his own size category upon reaching level 7. What happens to the character's space in this case? I assume the Famine Spirit's size category, reach, etc. remain the same, but... Suppose a Medium-sized Famine Spirit swallows a Large creature. Will the Famine Spirit still take up one 5x5 square, or will it take up a 10x10 ft. square?

2) Can the Famine Spirit target swallowed enemies with, say, touch attack spells? Can a Famine Spirit actually do anything further to a swallowed foe aside from waiting for it to expire?

Lastly, I'm interested in build advice. What sort of character options facilitate using the Swallow Whole tactic?
I have my eye on the Oversized Goblin race and the (Greater) Permanent Size Change bestial traits. With the Martial Shifter archetype, I figured the Wrestling sphere might be useful, but I'm not actually sure you can perform grapple checks on swallowed foes...


1. Nothing says that the Famine Spirit's space changes, so it doesn't. It is a Supernatural ability, so if you have trouble wrapping your head around how that works, you can imagine their stomach as being like an extradimensional space. That makes a lot more sense than "being unimpeded while lugging around a beer gut as big as you are", too.

2. RAW, nothing stops you from continuing to attack the swallowed enemy, but that's silly, so don't count on your DM to allow it. They are unambiguously still grappled as per the Swallow Whole rules, though, so you can definitely make Grapple checks to deal damage to them as a standard action.

For build advice, I would primarily recommend that you get the Constrict ability, which allows you to deal damage when you make a successful grapple check (including to maintain an ongoing grapple). The Anaconda's Coils are a good way to get it when you can afford them, but you might be able to find an easier way.

Since acid resistance is common on higher-level monsters, I would also suggest eventually finding a way to bypass or mitigate it.

Lastly, bear in mind that your build is contingent on making three consecutive checks against an enemy- one to hit, one to grapple, one to swallow whole. Focus on getting your accuracy and CMB as high as possible. Unfortunately, being big will hinder the former as much as it benefits the latter.


Much appreciated, InvisiblePink!

InvisiblePink wrote:


2. RAW, nothing stops you from continuing to attack the swallowed enemy, but that's silly, so don't count on your DM to allow it. They are unambiguously still grappled as per the Swallow Whole rules, though, so you can definitely make Grapple checks to deal damage to them as a standard action.

I've been racking my brain on this point, 'cause while the victim still has the grappled condition, the swallower loses it, so I do see an argument for "not being in a grapple"... and the swallower would presumably have to use his gut muscles to affect the grapple check. Since the victim doesn't automatically escape if the swallower neglects to maintain the grapple, I'm on the fence as to whether the swallower still has the option to "maintain" the grapple as a standard action.

With that ambiguity in mind, I was looking at what talents in the Wrestling sphere could apply to swallowed opponents. Chokehold and Hammerlock both seem to be useful in any case. I'm a bit leery of all the talents that hinge on "maintaining" a grapple (therefore including all the (slam) talents).

Quote:
For build advice, I would primarily recommend that you get the Constrict ability, which allows you to deal damage when you make a successful grapple check (including to maintain an ongoing grapple). The Anaconda's Coils are a good way to get it when you can afford them, but you might be able to find an easier way.

I was browsing through the Alteration sphere and noted the Tentacles talent to grant Constrict and the Undead Traits talent for stomach damage reduction and the Blood Drain ability. I'm still reading over the Transformation feat line to see if I can somehow make those traits permanent, but concept-wise I'd rather have the character stay in his base form and just add those traits.

Quote:

Since acid resistance is common on higher-level monsters, I would also suggest eventually finding a way to bypass or mitigate it.

Lastly, bear in mind that your build is contingent on making three consecutive checks against an enemy- one to hit, one to grapple, one to swallow whole. Focus on getting your accuracy and CMB as high as possible. Unfortunately, being big will hinder the former as much as it benefits the latter.

I think the Destruction sphere has some resistance/immunity-bypassing options, but I guess it will be a DM call as to whether touch spells can target a swallowed opponent. Again depending on whether the swallower can make grapple checks against the swallowed victim, I was looking into the Improved Cryptic Strike and/or Spell Attack feats to add more rider effects along the lines of Constrict.

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