How Many INTs?


Rules Questions


OK, I think the answer to this, as to many others, is "ask your GM", but I'm curious.

Let's say you are a multi classed Alchemist 1 / Rouge(Underground Chemist) 2 / Fighter(Opportunist Fighter) 5

You throw and hit with a splash weapon. Do you add 1*INT or 3*INT to the damage?

Bonus points if you can somehow argue that it should be 2*INT!

As always, thanks a ton for your help and time,

Joe

Sovereign Court

No, it will be Int*1. Per the Ability Score Stacking FAQ.

Said FAQ wrote:

Do ability modifiers from the same ability stack? For instance, can you add the same ability bonus on the same roll twice using two different effects that each add that same ability modifier?

No. An ability bonus, such as "Strength bonus", is considered to be the same source for the purpose of bonuses from the same source not stacking. However, you can still add, for instance “a deflection bonus equal to your Charisma modifier” and your Charisma modifier. For this purpose, however, the paladin's untyped "bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws" from divine grace is considered to be the same as "Charisma bonus (if any)", and the same would be true for any other untyped "bonus equal to her [ability score] bonus" constructions.

All of the INT bonuses in question are untyped, so none of them stack.

Now, if you were using the Opportunist Fighter's Alchemical Admixture (or a Hybridization Funnel) you would add Int*2, because its "as if hit by both" so 2 hits effectively, and 2 separate damage rolls. And they get resistances twice.


Firebug wrote:
No, it will be Int*1. Per the Ability Score Stacking FAQ.
Said FAQ wrote:

Do ability modifiers from the same ability stack? For instance, can you add the same ability bonus on the same roll twice using two different effects that each add that same ability modifier?

No. An ability bonus, such as "Strength bonus", is considered to be the same source for the purpose of bonuses from the same source not stacking. However, you can still add, for instance “a deflection bonus equal to your Charisma modifier” and your Charisma modifier. For this purpose, however, the paladin's untyped "bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws" from divine grace is considered to be the same as "Charisma bonus (if any)", and the same would be true for any other untyped "bonus equal to her [ability score] bonus" constructions.

All of the INT bonuses in question are untyped, so none of them stack.

Now, if you were using the Opportunist Fighter's Alchemical Admixture (or a Hybridization Funnel) you would add Int*2, because its "as if hit by both" so 2 hits effectively, and 2 separate damage rolls. And they get resistances twice.

Thanks!

That's really interesting. I assume using a Hybridization Funnel would work the same way (multiplying INT by 2)?

I'm dreaming up a splash weapon build using:

1) Rouge, combine archetypes: Underground Chemist with Eldritch Scoundrel
2) Quick Draw
3) Concentrated Splash (which itself requires another feat)
4) Arcane Strike

You could full attack with splash weapons, get lots of sneak attacks in the surprise round, and get 1.5 times your INT and Arcane Strike bonus on everything. And depending on how many times you have 10 minutes to use the hybridization funnel, you can get 3*INT on those attacks as well.

On top of all that, you still get to do some fun Rouge things and Wizard things on the side. Maybe not min/maxed, but sounds like fun to me!


Despite Firebug's suggestion, I would talk to my GMbefore assuming they'd allow 2*Int or 2 instances of precision damage added to a single attack roll.

Also eldritch scoundrel messes with rogue talents enough that I don't think it'll stack with underground chemist. Both get extra options they can take in place of a rogue talent.

Sovereign Court

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But you aren't adding the Int bonus to the same attack roll... in fact you aren't adding it to the attack roll at all. However, you are making two separate damage rolls, so there is no stacking issue.
The "as if hit by both" makes it pretty clear its two hits.
Regardless, Eldritch Scoundrel doesn't stack with Underground Chemist as they both modify your 4th level Rogue Talent.

And... its Rogue, not Rouge. Rouge is is a cosmetic.


Firebug wrote:

But you aren't adding the Int bonus to the same attack roll... in fact you aren't adding it to the attack roll at all. However, you are making two separate damage rolls, so there is no stacking issue.

The "as if hit by both" makes it pretty clear its two hits.
Regardless, Eldritch Scoundrel doesn't stack with Underground Chemist as they both modify your 4th level Rogue Talent.

And... its Rogue, not Rouge. Rouge is is a cosmetic.

Wow, I really thought the archetype combo was the least controversial part of this idea. Eldritch Scoundrel improves the 4th level talent, so I assumed it would still be OK to lose it to another archetype. Isn't this similar to how you can combine Qinggong Monk with other archetypes? Qinggong Monk modifies Slow Fall for example, but you can still stack Qinggong Monk with another archetype that removes Slow Fall. Why doesn't it work in the Rogue case? I would totally understand if the two archetypes removed the same ability, or if they both debuffed the same ability.

Either way, the idea still works, I'd just have to multi-class if I wanted Arcane Strike. The point of the build was more the splash weapon thrower and less the caster...


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Qinggong Monk is a special case. No other archetype works that way in terms of combining with other archetypes.


StealthDragon wrote:
Eldritch Scoundrel improves the 4th level talent, so I assumed it would still be OK to lose it to another archetype.

Because literally anything that modifies a class feature even the slightest way prevents any other archetype that somehow modifies or replaces that class feature from stacking. This is the relevant FAQ.

Qinggong stacks with everything, because it doesn't actually alter any class features unless you chose to - it basically operates on the level above class features. You could say that Qinggong modifies the class they way Eldritch Scoundrel modifies the Rogue Talents, but of course, modifying the class itself is not checked for archetype compatibility.

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