Damage dealing Monk


Advice


What feats and style would you recommend for a damage dealing Monk. No MC, just straight Monk, and preferred race?


You can start with this thread where prototype00 analysed and compared the different stances.


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Monks are damage dealers out of the box. Highest damage comes from Dragon Stance, though Mountain Stance gets pretty close too.

I'd recommend just straight Monk unless there's something very desirable from another class. The dedication for other martial classes is a dead feat for Monks so you have to weigh the value of the feat you want as two feats.


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For pure damage, Dragon style is probably the best.

You can go full damage and use mobility as your defense (move/flurry/move) alongside defensive feats like Winding path and Guarded movement to be mostly safe from everything as you waltz back and forth.

A few ki powers, notably ki strike and either blast or the one that lets you pseudo-fly, and increased focus recovery. As well as "passive" stuff like brawling focus and stunning fists.

Personally, i think a little more well rounded build, maybe a Wolf style dex monk with some strength, is more universally useful because he can switch from a pure damage, to a "control" build in the blink of the eye, and his defences will naturally be higher (at least in the earlier levels) so he can stand his ground and maybe get more attacks in.


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Ancestry: Nothing with a physical ability flaw. Human is probably best (they tend to be).

Feats: Dragon Style is the raw damage style, as long as you can have dexterity as second highest for AC purposes. Or rely on hit-and-run tactics, though those may lower your damage output by eating actions. After Dragon Style, pick up Student of Perfection dedication, then go for Perfect Strike. If you aren't multiclassing you don't really care about the house for raw damage, though some provide good utility. Getting Ki and Perfect Strike gives you some good burst damage options, maybe later get the feats to recharge focus faster. Dragon Roar can be pretty neat for damage if you focus on intimidate. Consider elemental fist if you encounter a lot of enemies with vulnerabilities. Diamond Fists is also a good pick, but at level 18 is a ways away.


shroudb wrote:
Personally, i think a little more well rounded build, maybe a Wolf style dex monk with some strength, is more universally useful because he can switch from a pure damage, to a "control" build in the blink of the eye, and his defences will naturally be higher (at least in the earlier levels) so he can stand his ground and maybe get more attacks in.

Are those necessarily separate? Wolf drag can reliably make an opponent go prone. And that sets up an attack from Stand Still because standing up is a move action. Also, you can fit in a flurry (you have an agile weapon and the enemy takes a -2 from being flat footed while prone).

I feel like the question is whether you are going for a mobile style with flurry and stunning fist, or on a wolf drag+flurry for the most attacks. You can debuff in either circumstance.


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lemeres wrote:
shroudb wrote:
Personally, i think a little more well rounded build, maybe a Wolf style dex monk with some strength, is more universally useful because he can switch from a pure damage, to a "control" build in the blink of the eye, and his defences will naturally be higher (at least in the earlier levels) so he can stand his ground and maybe get more attacks in.

Are those necessarily separate? Wolf drag can reliably make an opponent go prone. And that sets up an attack from Stand Still because standing up is a move action. Also, you can fit in a flurry (you have an agile weapon and the enemy takes a -2 from being flat footed while prone).

I feel like the question is whether you are going for a mobile style with flurry and stunning fist, or on a wolf drag+flurry for the most attacks. You can debuff in either circumstance.

no, they aren't completly seperate.

as you pointed out, there are times where you can fit a bit of control alongside damage.

but it does require specific scenarios happening, like starting next to the opponent with all of your 3 actions and saving your reaction for damage and etc.

usually, you have to decide between a 2 action attack like drag OR flurry. And even then, having the option to grab instead of an attack and still fitting in a stunning fist that may steal 1 more action from your opponent, is what i would call "switching to control".

But as i said:

the beauty of such a style/feat choice, is exactly that:

it's so flexible in what you can do in a round. It won't reach the damage of a strength based Dragon monk going all out, but it's not that far behind for all the tools it can get and use imo.


shroudb wrote:

no, they aren't completly seperate.

as you pointed out, there are times where you can fit a bit of control alongside damage.

but it does require specific scenarios happening, like starting next to the opponent with all of your 3 actions and saving your reaction for damage and etc.

usually, you have to decide between a 2 action attack like drag OR flurry. And even then, having the option to grab instead of an attack and still fitting in a stunning fist that may steal 1 more action from your opponent, is what i would call "switching to control".

Ah, I forgot about the advantages of assurance athletics. Hmmm... other stances can use a similar trip tactic while having other damage boosters.

But I like that wolf drag covers a different situation that the assurance trip does (higher level enemies/enemies with high reflex saves for their level). So wolf stance can be far more reliable with knock down. Great set of options.

So you might need your reaction for something other than stand still? What are of the good reactions available to monks (assuming no multiclass)?


lemeres wrote:
shroudb wrote:

no, they aren't completly seperate.

as you pointed out, there are times where you can fit a bit of control alongside damage.

but it does require specific scenarios happening, like starting next to the opponent with all of your 3 actions and saving your reaction for damage and etc.

usually, you have to decide between a 2 action attack like drag OR flurry. And even then, having the option to grab instead of an attack and still fitting in a stunning fist that may steal 1 more action from your opponent, is what i would call "switching to control".

Ah, I forgot about the advantages of assurance athletics. Hmmm... other stances can use a similar trip tactic while having other damage boosters.

But I like that wolf drag covers a different situation that the assurance trip does (higher level enemies/enemies with high reflex saves for their level). So wolf stance can be far more reliable with knock down. Great set of options.

So you might need your reaction for something other than stand still? What are of the good reactions available to monks (assuming no multiclass)?

well, shield block is accessible to everyone and monks can use shields, although it takes an action to use it.

then you have the various reactions from ancestries. From +saving throw, to orc ferocity, to goblin scuttle.

and in most of my builds, i do tend to pick MC in something, although, if there was one class that can easily go without, it would have been monk. So many great options that you can safely pick a great one in each level.


shroudb wrote:

For pure damage, Dragon style is probably the best.

You can go full damage and use mobility as your defense (move/flurry/move) alongside defensive feats like Winding path and Guarded movement to be mostly safe from everything as you waltz back and forth.

A few ki powers, notably ki strike and either blast or the one that lets you pseudo-fly, and increased focus recovery. As well as "passive" stuff like brawling focus and stunning fists.

Personally, i think a little more well rounded build, maybe a Wolf style dex monk with some strength, is more universally useful because he can switch from a pure damage, to a "control" build in the blink of the eye, and his defences will naturally be higher (at least in the earlier levels) so he can stand his ground and maybe get more attacks in.

Wait, MC dead feat? Rage? Hunt? I don't bagree.


shroudb wrote:

For pure damage, Dragon style is probably the best.

You can go full damage and use mobility as your defense (move/flurry/move) alongside defensive feats like Winding path and Guarded movement to be mostly safe from everything as you waltz back and forth.

A few ki powers, notably ki strike and either blast or the one that lets you pseudo-fly, and increased focus recovery. As well as "passive" stuff like brawling focus and stunning fists.

Personally, i think a little more well rounded build, maybe a Wolf style dex monk with some strength, is more universally useful because he can switch from a pure damage, to a "control" build in the blink of the eye, and his defences will naturally be higher (at least in the earlier levels) so he can stand his ground and maybe get more attacks in.

Wait, MC dead feat? Rage? Hunt? I don't agree.

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