Conversion Woes -- This is Me, Venting


Conversions

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Scarab Sages

breithauptclan wrote:
The idea is to create a character that 'feels' like the same character, rather than one that has the same details. That will prevent the jarring of feeling like the character changed overnight somehow. The new version of that character can be placed right in to the same story as the old version of that character.

That's likely where the hang-up lies. I'm trying to get the math right more than the spirit.


* That barbarian has an always active bite, if the Goblin had the big teeth racial trait it has increased damage (1d8 at lv10). So in PF2 it would be a Razortooth Goblin.

* Bear Totem would give the claw attacks.

* Filth Mouth doesn't exist (at least not yet). @Staffan that feat should be a general or ancestry feat with a bite attack as a pre-req, and it's probably meant to be a stall out tactic or just flavor.

* Raging Intimidation (intimidate while raging) and Intimidating Prowess (better intimidation).

* Titan Wrestler (Grapple creatures 2 size larger).

* Sudden Charge (better charge) and/or Predator's Speed (pounce).

* Furious Grab (Grab but instead of getting an attempt for 1 attack, your second successful attack is guaranteed to succeed).

* Cave Crawler (climb speed 10) & very sneaky (boost to sneaking)

* No improvised weapons as far as I can see.

* No DR, Renewed Vigor (restore Temp HP) could replace it.

* No Uncanny Dodge, anti grapple, or AC boost while raging.

Barbarian Feats: 3 (Pounce is same lv as Furious Grab), 4 if you grab AoO; out of 6 feats.
Goblin Feats: 2 of 4.
Skill Feats: 2 of 6.

*************
Btw, I noticed no Weapon Finesse or boosts to saves but the character minmaxed his stats quite a bit.

I'm saying this because a lot of people believe "minmaxed/dumping stats is bad, because it ruins things for others". But given how long your game has run clearly that hasn't happened. So the problem is most likely people being bad at communicating the expected power level, than characters being able to have very different power levels.

Liberty's Edge

Worldmaker wrote:

I realized that, after the fact.

I probably should have started with Tarok Firebeard, the Dwarf rifleman gunslinger, or Bulwark, the Warforged (cnoverted form the Eberron race) Unbreakable Fighter.

Yeah, those would be trickier, particularly the Gunslinger. Warforged is probably convertible, but I'd definitely wait for the PF2 gun rules before doing Gunslinger.

Verdant Wheel

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Perhaps play the mechanics of a Ranger with a Crossbow, just flavor it as a "gun", until Gunslinger proper is released?

Or make one small change to Crossbow to make it "mechanically equivalent" to other martial ranged weapons and grant Fatal as a free trait?:

"Handgun" (Hand Crossbow) = Fatal (d8)
"Gun" (Crossbow) = Fatal (d10)
"Heavy Gun" (Heavy Crossbow) = Fatal (d12)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

If you build firearms as Advanced weapons, and then give Proficiency in just that group of advanced weapons to follow along the Fighter tiers. Maybe have other types of weapons advance on Rogue tiers?

It would make Gunslingers very good with guns and okay with other weapons. The feats could then be based off of Fighter/Ranger archery tricks but only apply to guns.


Worldmaker wrote:
breithauptclan wrote:
The idea is to create a character that 'feels' like the same character, rather than one that has the same details. That will prevent the jarring of feeling like the character changed overnight somehow. The new version of that character can be placed right in to the same story as the old version of that character.
That's likely where the hang-up lies. I'm trying to get the math right more than the spirit.

As far as math goes, just try to get the relative levels of the main stats (STR, DEX, CON...) and something approximate for the skill levels.

From there, most of the feel of a character comes from either abilities, or role-playing. A lot of the abilities are already available, and a good pile more of them can be approximated well enough.

Some classes and races are a problem though. Gunslinger is one of them. Oracle as well, though that one can be approximated.

So yeah. I would recommend staying with PF1 until either the PF2 rules include something that can better represent a gunslinger character, or until your gunslinger character retires from active adventuring. Though some significant houserules (like the ones proposed previously in this thread) could be used instead.


I have Firearms converted for my gun magus, and they'd fit the dwarf well enough (up to a point).
Way I did it, they're Advanced weapons, which lets me make them fairly powerful, and Fighters can simply take the lv6 training feat to get their best proficiency with them. No need for Gunslingers... Unless you want to homebrew a feat for dwarf to treat firearms as martials, which could be fitting and allows to use Ranger instead.
Special effects and tricks are usually obtained with special ammo - namely spellstrike ammunition, explosive ammunition and similar.

The warforged will need a lot of homebrewing for the ancestry feats. My suggestion is to look at the Living Monolith archetype and use those as a basis, with less power but similar theme.

Scarab Sages

Here's the PE1 base for the Warforged conversion.

----

Warforged

Standard Warforged Racial Traits
• Ability Score Adjustments: +2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma.

• Type: Construct (Living Construct)

• Size: Medium.

• Base Speed: 30 feet.

• Languages: Common. Warforged gain a number of additional languages equal to their Intelligence modifier.

• Armor Plating: All Warforged have armor plating that gives them a +2 natural armor bonus. This armor increases the chance of Arcane Spell Failure by +15% but does not affect the Warforged’s maximum Dexterity bonus or armor check penalties. Armor Plating is considered weightless for the purpose of the Warforged’s encumbrance.

• Artificial Metabolism: Warforged are immune to Necromancy effects, and do not gain benefit from any Healing spells unless those spells specifically effect Constructs or originate from the Warforged himself. A Warforged is always affected by Fast Healing.

• Composite Body: Warforged bodies are composed of stone, metal, and wood, and thus are vulnerable to effects which target creatures composed of these substances, such as Heat Metal, Repel Wood, and a rust monster’s rusting touch. Spells which only affect inanimate objects (such as Stone Shape) have no effect on a Warforged.

• Focused Training: Warforged gain one skill of their choice as a class skill.

• Light Fortification: Whenever a Sneak Attack or critical hit is scored against a Warforged, there is a 25% chance that the extra damage is negated and damage is rolled normally.

• Natural Weapons: Warforged have a Slam attack that deals 1d4 points of damage.

• Tireless: Warforged are immune to Fatigue and Exhaustion and receive Endurance as a bonus feat.

Alternate Racial Traits
• Body Double: You were created to resemble a specific creature of the same size category. You gain a +10 racial bonus on Disguise checks made to impersonate this creature. If you have the Plating racial trait, your plating resembles normal suits of armor, though it cannot be removed. This ability replaces Light Fortification.

• Integrated Weapon: One of your hands has been replaced by a weapon which cannot be disarmed or sundered. You are automatically proficient with this weapon. If you already had proficiency with it due to your class, you instead gain Weapon Focus with it as a bonus feat, but you only gain the benefits of the feat when using your Integrated Weapon. If the Integrated Weapon is a two-handed weapon, you must still use your second hand to help wield it. If it is a throwing weapon, you may detatch and reattach the limb freely, and it can be Sundered while separated from you. If it is a double weapon then both of your hands have been replaced. This ability replaces Natural Weapons.

• Jaws of Death: You gain a bite attack that deals 1d6 points of damage and has a critical threat range of 20/x3. This replaces Natural Weapons.

• Prototype: You do not suffer the racial penalty to Charisma, but you take gain the Armor Plating racial trait either. This alters Ability Score Adjustments and replaces Armor Plating.

• Second Slam: You gain two Slam attacks rather than just one. This replaces Light Fortification and Natural Weapons.

• Scout Model: Your size is reduced to Small. Your Ability Score Adjustments are +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, and -2 Strength. In addition, you gain a +2 size bonus to Acrobatics checks. This alters Ability Score Adjustments and replaces Focused Training.

Racial Feats

Advanced Construction
Construct’s Bane
Hidden Compartment
Mechanical Universe
Returning Weapon
Rust-Proof
Self-Mechanic
Work of Art


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I'm late for a birthday party, but a quick glance reveals:

Your three warforged heritages are "Armored", "Prototype", and "Scout". Your ability modifers convert just as they are, and you get a free boost on top if it. Many of the rest can be ancestral feats.

I'll post more later once I've had time to think.


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I didn't forget! But my system mastery is shaky (to put it mildly), so I've been shy about homebrewing right at the moment. But here's my first stab at it.

Warfored

Hit points: 8
Size: Medium
Speed: 25 feet
Ability Boost: Constitution, Intelligence, 1 free
Ability Flaw: Charisma
Languages: Common. Additional languages equal to your intelligence modifier (if it's positive). Choose from the list of common languages and any other languages to which you have access (such as the languages prevalent in your region).
Traits: Warforged*, Humanoid
Low Light Vision
Composite body: A Warforged can apply an armor rune directly to its own skin. You can invest in your skin, or a suit of armor you are wearing, but not both at once.

Warforged Trait:
While ultimately humanoid through the complex magic that constructed them, Warforged share enough in common with other constructs to be recognized by magic that interacts with constructs. A caster that targets a Warforged character may treat that Warforged as a construct if doing so would be beneficial to the caster.

Heritages
Armored: Most Warforged that were intended to be soldiers were created with some basic protection. An armored warforged gains a +1 to AC, and can apply light armor runes to its composite body.
Scout: A scout Warforged is small and has increased sensory ability. You gain a +2 circumstance bonus when using the Seek action to find hidden or undetected creatures within 30 feet of you. When you target an opponent that is concealed from you or hidden from you, reduce the DC of the flat check to 3 for a concealed target or 9 for a hidden one.
Prototype: The earliest Warforged were somewhat more like constructs than humanoids when compared to more modern Warforged, and are not quite as vulnerable to the toils of the flesh. If you roll a success on a saving throw against a poison, disease, or fatigue effect, you get a critical success instead.
Body Double: You were made to look like a specific individual. When impersonating the specific creature you resemble, crit failures count as a failure. If you critically succeed, the person you have deceived does not get a new roll to penetrate your disguise for 1 day.

Ancestry Feats
Artificial Metabolism (1): When saving against a necromancy effect, treat your result as if it were one level higher (crit failure becomes a failure, failure a success, success a crit success).
Docent (1): gain an intelligent item that counts as a familiar.
Integrated Weapon (1): You have a simple or martial one-handed melee weapon that you have access to incorporated into your body's construction. You are trained in this weapon, and if it is a simple weapon, increase its damage die one step. You may choose to integrate a weapon into either or both arms, and are always considered to be carrying them, though you must use a Change Your Grip action to Wield them. If you are not actively wielding them, you are not considered to be carrying them for the purposes of Manipulating other objects. They do not count against your bulk.
Jaws of Death (1)
Second Slam (requires Integrated Weapon) (5): You gain the Double Slice Fighter class feat, but can only use it with your Intergrated Weapon.
Tireless (5): Immune to the fatigue condition.
Scion of House Cannith (9): You gain access to dragonmarks as if you were a Human member of House Cannith.
Construct Apotheosis (requires Artificial Metabolism and Tireless) (13): You become immune to necromancy spell effects, unless you cast them on yourself. You gain the construct trait and lose the humanoid trait (and must immediately retrain out of any feats that require the humanoid trait).
Humanoid Apotheosis (13): When targeted by a spell, you only count as a construct if doing so would benefit you, not the caster.
Natural Weapon (requires Integrated weapon) (13): Whenever you gain a class feature that grants you expert or greater proficiency in a given weapon or weapons, you also gain that proficiency with your integrated weapon.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

When you line things up ability by ability, it seems that most things exist in PF2 in some form or another.

For those things that don't exist in PF2, you have a choice to make: either house-rule them in, making new feats, or else choose other cool abilities to replace those lost. IMHO, the second choice is best.

At the end of the process, any PF1 character who didn't have full BAB will find they are much more effective in combat than before, at least in terms of raw hit bonus. That should help make up for any lost abilities or sour grapes deriving from that loss.

I still think it would be better to retire the old characters and start off with a new generation, at first level. This will go a long way towards familiarizing players with the new game system before they start adding on all the bells and whistles of 13th-14th level. FWIW, this is the level when PF1 really starts to break down and level-eqiuvalent combats become laborious in the extreme. I'm hoping that PF2 is able to handle high-level characters and conflicts in a more streamlined manner.


Samurai wrote:
My question is, why bother converting everything? After this long, I'm sure you're not still playing the same characters you created in AD&D 1E.

I don't know about the original poster, but that assumption is wrong in my local Monday game. There are characters who have been around since the beginning that still make appearances or get pulled back into the mix. Older characters also tend to be higher level, with with more abilities and items that make for more contact with the game system.

My local Tuesday game can, and did, what you advocated and always makes new characters at the conclusion of an AP.

One interesting difference between the two games is that few people in the Tuesday game even remember the names of their previous character since it was essentially discarded. But the Monday game has a rich history and when an old character makes an appearance it can be like running into an old friend.

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