[GM Reference] The Fall Of Plaguestone **Caution Spoilers**


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Mindfuddle Gas

So, since I can't find a GM reference thread for this module, I've started one here:

In Section H1. Forest Guardians Moderate 2

The Vine Lashers work symbiotically with the Poison Blooms. Specifically the Poison Blooms release mindfuddle gas.

I do not understand how to determine what stage of gas and for how long the effects last.

I imagine the stage may be determined by the DC Failure/Critical Failure but I do not know how to determine the number of rounds the effects last.

I am a first time GM. Can anyone assist me with understanding how to effect the poison bloom mindfuddle gas?

Thanks


Rules for afflictions and poisons are on page 457 of the Core Rulebook, in case you want more details or my explanations get confusing, but I'll try to explain it here.

When the mindfuddle gas is released or if a character walks into it, they have to make a Fort save, DC 15. If they succeed, good, they are unaffected. If they fail, they suffer the effect of stage 1, and if they crit fail, the effect of stage 2. So in that, you were right.

Each stage then lists an interval of 1 round, which means every round, an affected character has to make a saving throw. If they succeed, they go down one stage (or two for a crit success), meaning they basically heal. If that would make them to 0, they are no longer affected and don't need to roll saves anymore. If they fail the save, they go up one stage (or two for a crit fail), suffering worse effects on that round unless they were already at stage 3 (since that's where the poison caps, they would just keep taking 1d4 mental damage every round and stay stupefied 2 and confused).

The poison has a maximum duration of 6 rounds, so after 6 rounds, even if the character didn't succeed on enough saves, they are no longer affected.

The one thing I'm not sure about is whether a character that stays in the cloud after succeeding on their initial save or spending 6 rounds affected by the poison is still forced to make saves, as if being subjected to the poison repeatedly, which would make the max duration basically 10 rounds for anyone who makes the mistake of staying in that cloud. I think they would, but I'm unsure. Maybe someone can confirm this?

Silver Crusade

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Multiple Exposure

Can't talk about the adventure, haven't digested it in detail, but from your explanation, I would think the above linked rule would be used, so staying in the cloud is not advised.

Note that multiple exposures do not extend the duration of poisons. But I guess you can start again after the 6 rounds of mindfuddle gas, if you haven't learned by then.


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On page 22 it lists rewards of defeating Hallod and one of those rewards is a runestone containing the shadow rune.

I was able to find runestone on page 571 of the Core Rulebook. However, I can not find anywhere the steps to transfer magic from a runestone to an item, in this case non-metallic armor.

The Shadow property is listed on page 583 of the Core Rulebook.

When looking up etching you have to make a Craft DC (up to the DM; page 244) to etch an ability on a runestone as well as having the formula to do so. To me this seems extremely complicated for a piece of first level loot.

The way I was going to rule it is that if you want to transfer the rune of shadow to a set of armor, you can do so without any check if from a runestone.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

"Runes", CRB, page 580 ff. The section on "transferring runes" in particular. In this case you need armor onto which has already been etched a +1 potency rune. Transferring a rune does not require a formula, afaics. It just requires a crafting check. The formula will have been required to etch the rune onto the runestone in the first place. Transferring is a downtime activity, but I wouldn't require 4 days to do it. Seems to me one is enough. Maybe even just a few hours.

The shadow property rune is 3rd level. So this is hardly first level loot.

Shadow Lodge

From my understanding, as a 3rd level item, it will require a Crafting check DC 18 (15 + level seems the suggested amount for something magical but not rare). As it's being transferred from a runestone, there will be no additional cost (usually 10% of worth of item) and it will take 1 day rather than 4 days (see page 580) of downtime.

As Ed said, you will need a +1 potency rune on light or medium armor of a nonmetallic variety to allow the transfer of a single property rune such as this shadow rune; otherwise the crafting will automatically, critically fail.


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You guys are amazing, thanks for the insightful and thorough answers.

Dark Archive

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So anybody finds the unique alchemical elemental animals cool and loves how the adventure goes from murder mystery into weird alchemical pollution and experiments? :D

Shadow Lodge

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I love the clay Jason has given us to work with. Plaguestone shifts gears a couple of times as you say from murder mystery to ecological mystery. There are a couple of things I’ll be augmenting when I run this to really squeeze every bit of juice Jason has given us.

* I’ll be starting in Elidir to give the PCs time to not only want to solve the murder, but avenge it.
* I’ll be giving them an eccentric dastardly villain from the get go; someone who’ll really get under their skin. I’ll use him as a foil for Bort, emphasise Bort’s excellent qualities over my introductory villain’s despicability. Hallod is not a villain, and “V” does not directly interact with them enough until the end.
* For me, the real conflict at the nucleus of the module is between Silwyth Eldara and Father Bolgrist. And so I ask you a question: imagine if Bolgrist never died? Imagine if this is the secret a cabal of elders has been forced to keep and Bolgrist still lives deep under Etran’s Folly? And imagine if Bort Bargith having found out this secret threatened Bolgrist with exposure if he did not come forward? Imagine if “V” only wanted Bort sickened, as her cunning plan was going to destroy everyone in town anyway? Imagine if Bolgrist in his desperation was the one that had Bort truly poisoned?

Now we have a double layered mystery, with some extra red herrings to further layer in. And the PCs have to dig to the roots of the module to truly solve the murder. “V”’s plotline becomes more one of redemption, while the “true” villain of the module will hopefully get his just desserts when the PCs finally uncover what “really” happened.

As you can most likely tell; I’m really juiced to run this for my players.

Dark Archive

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O_o; I'm always kinda confused whenever GMs get excited and change adventure a lot, but you do you.

Kinda confused why Cleric of Gozreh would suddenly be the main villain instead of just jerk in background.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I had a question about Greytusk's Double Shot activity.

It States "Greytusk can spend two ranged strikes against two different targets each at a -2 penalty, Greytusks multiple attack penalty increases only after both attacks are made"

So if Greytusk were to use its three actions to first use Double Shot (With both attacks at -2 ) , then make another longbow strike , would the 3rd strike be at -5 or -10? (Because it is the third attack in the round)


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Quote:
would the 3rd strike be at -5 or -10? (Because it is the third attack in the round)

The third attack would be at -10.

The full wording on the Double Shot Feat, which I presume is what Greytusk is using under-the-hood, makes this more clear: "Both attacks count toward your multiple attack penalty, but the penalty doesn’t increase until after you’ve made both of them."

Normally, when you attack three times, "The third time you attack...you take a –10 penalty to your attack roll."

So: both Strikes count, and the third Strike would be at -10.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Thanks cjelli. That's what i figured but wording is kind of confusing. :)


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

Can someone help me figure out the Vine Lashers?

Do the vines have to make DC 11 flat checks every time they attack a PC because their only sense is imprecise?

**Imprecise Sense**

**Source** [*Core Rulebook pg. 464*]
Hearing is an imprecise sense—it cannot detect the full range of detail that a precise sense can. You can usually sense a creature automatically with an imprecise sense, but it has the hidden condition instead of the observed condition. It might be undetected by you if it’s using Stealth or is in an environment that distorts the sense, such as a noisy room in the case of hearing. In those cases, you have to use the Seek basic action to detect the creature. **At best, an imprecise sense can be used to make an undetected creature (or one you didn’t even know was there) merely hidden—it can’t make the creature observed.**

**Hidden**

**Source** [*Core Rulebook pg. 620*]
While you’re hidden from a creature, that creature knows the space you’re in but can’t tell precisely where you are. You typically become hidden by using Stealth to Hide. When Seeking a creature using only imprecise senses, it remains hidden, rather than observed. A creature you’re hidden from is flat-footed to you, and it must succeed at a DC 11 flat check when targeting you with an attack, spell, or other effect or it fails affect you. Area effects aren’t subject to this flat check.

Edit: formatting


I have used the VINE LASHERS and the BLOODLASH BUSH as if they can see (don´t ask me how they do). Because I have assumed if a creature´s entry don´t say it´s blind, the creature can see.

As an example, look the entry on the BLOOD OOZE, it says under Perception: "motion sense, no vision". And also is inmune to visual.

The entries on VINE LASHERS and BLOODLASH BUSH lack that kind of info, so they must have some kind of vision plus the tremorsense.

Also found this on the CORE BOOK, page 465, second paragraf under VAGUE SENSES:

"Pathfinder’s rules assume that a given creature has
vision as its only precise sense and hearing as its only
imprecise sense."

So the BLOODLAS BUSH and VINE LASHERS and BLOOD OOZE also have haering as imprecise sense (it´s implied if not said otherwise).


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
Aswaarg wrote:

I have used the VINE LASHERS and the BLOODLASH BUSH as if they can see (don´t ask me how they do). Because I have assumed if a creature´s entry don´t say it´s blind, the creature can see.

As an example, look the entry on the BLOOD OOZE, it says under Perception: "motion sense, no vision". And also is inmune to visual.

The entries on VINE LASHERS and BLOODLASH BUSH lack that kind of info, so they must have some kind of vision plus the tremorsense.

Also found this on the CORE BOOK, page 465, second paragraf under VAGUE SENSES:

"Pathfinder’s rules assume that a given creature has
vision as its only precise sense and hearing as its only
imprecise sense."

So the BLOODLAS BUSH and VINE LASHERS and BLOOD OOZE also have haering as imprecise sense (it´s implied if not said otherwise).

Thanks for the reference, I hadn't found that paragraph yet. I guess I'm just having trouble wrapping my head around plants having some form of vision.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

ThatTricksyGnome wrote:
Aswaarg wrote:

I have used the VINE LASHERS and the BLOODLASH BUSH as if they can see (don´t ask me how they do). Because I have assumed if a creature´s entry don´t say it´s blind, the creature can see.

As an example, look the entry on the BLOOD OOZE, it says under Perception: "motion sense, no vision". And also is inmune to visual.

The entries on VINE LASHERS and BLOODLASH BUSH lack that kind of info, so they must have some kind of vision plus the tremorsense.

Also found this on the CORE BOOK, page 465, second paragraf under VAGUE SENSES:

"Pathfinder’s rules assume that a given creature has
vision as its only precise sense and hearing as its only
imprecise sense."

So the BLOODLAS BUSH and VINE LASHERS and BLOOD OOZE also have haering as imprecise sense (it´s implied if not said otherwise).

Thanks for the reference, I hadn't found that paragraph yet. I guess I'm just having trouble wrapping my head around plants having some form of vision.

What is "haering"?


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It's a kind of fish.


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What maps are people using for the Feedmill?


I think the best route to go is to make the Big Bad more relatable and put the characters in a situation where they have to second guess killing them. While the are definitely a villain, their story is tragic and complex like many Batman villains. So killing the Big Bad should not be straight forward.

I tend to make my players question themselves and their characters when they kill most of my baddies and this has the perfect setup.

Paizo Employee Managing Developer

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CrystalSeas wrote:
What maps are people using for the Feedmill?

I think the first one shown in the product description for the Pathfinder Flip-Mat: Tavern Multi-Pack or the Pathfinder Flip-Mat Classics: Tavern would work well. I thought to mention that in the product, but felt it might read as too much product placement.


Adam Daigle wrote:
CrystalSeas wrote:
What maps are people using for the Feedmill?
I think the first one shown in the product description for the Pathfinder Flip-Mat: Tavern Multi-Pack or the Pathfinder Flip-Mat Classics: Tavern would work well. I thought to mention that in the product, but felt it might read as too much product placement.

I think it's ok for a company to suggest their own products in a product they sell. Most of us are ok with Paizo selling things, since they, you know, are in the business of selling books.


Well, this thread turned... Interesting.

Certainly I think a lot of the NPC art kind of looks like funny fanart of Minecraft characters in that their heads tend to lean squarish to my eyes, but that's definitely not a classically Asian phenotype.

I'm gearing up to run this this weekend and will likely have 5 players - anything I should watch out for? Any notable combats where I should slap an Elite or an extra mook in to?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I haven’t played that far in it yet, but watch out for that Boar, even with 5 people. That thing is gnarly. 1 shotted my Barbarian with a crit and its Reaction means it’s going to stay in the fight a lot longer than you would think.


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Rysky wrote:
I haven’t played that far in it yet, but watch out for that Boar, even with 5 people. That thing is gnarly. 1 shotted my Barbarian with a crit and its Reaction means it’s going to stay in the fight a lot longer than you would think.

Thanks for the tip! Definitely gonna look closely at that... Also really hoping the playtest comes tomorrow. One of my players would love to play a witch!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Grankless wrote:
Rysky wrote:
I haven’t played that far in it yet, but watch out for that Boar, even with 5 people. That thing is gnarly. 1 shotted my Barbarian with a crit and its Reaction means it’s going to stay in the fight a lot longer than you would think.
Thanks for the tip! Definitely gonna look closely at that... Also really hoping the playtest comes tomorrow. One of my players would love to play a witch!

Np :3

And here’s hoping!

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Tell us how it turned out!


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Grankless wrote:

Well, this thread turned... Interesting.

Certainly I think a lot of the NPC art kind of looks like funny fanart of Minecraft characters in that their heads tend to lean squarish to my eyes, but that's definitely not a classically Asian phenotype.

I'm gearing up to run this this weekend and will likely have 5 players - anything I should watch out for? Any notable combats where I should slap an Elite or an extra mook in to?

I´m going to start Part 3 next time so I can´t help you there, but tips for Part 1 and 2.

Part 1: In the mangy wolves atack, if your players don´t want to get down the cart, atack the horses, and the drivers, that should make some heroes to get down the ground and get some scratches.

In the event brawl, I had problems geting my players involved in the fight, they didn´t try to fight or tried to stop it calming the people, so they lost that xP. Try to force it a bit if they don´t step up (someone falls in his table, someone throws a jar to the barbarian).

For the boar, if the animal feels in danger (like when he has used ferocity for first time and is injured), change his tactic and make him run away, he is faster than the PCs so he is going to get away. The will be awarded for the xP anyway and they will learn that sometimes there is no need to kill everything.

Part 2: On the Mutant wolves, point out very clearly they are blind. That probably will lead to crazy plans (my guys used a pestilent goo that they had in a jar because they thought they used the smell sense), also maybe they will learn tactics for fighting creatures with motion sense.

The Blood Ooze can be a TPK if your players are the kind of charging as first action. Try to point that the Ooze is eyeless and maybe they will try to Recall knowleadge to know what sense is using the creature, it can be a very good tip for them. Also for The Sculptor I made him stay in the chamber using 1 action each turn giving an order to the Blood Ooze (things like, go straight and atack!), instead of a powder coagulant I made him using some kind of spray dispenser with 3 charges. If your players are fast enough, they can take it away from the Orc and try to use it (my players tried but they were too late). I made the sculptor run away when he emptied the spray, because the fight was very hard for them.

I hope this tips help you in some way.


Rysky wrote:
I haven’t played that far in it yet, but watch out for that Boar, even with 5 people. That thing is gnarly. 1 shotted my Barbarian with a crit and its Reaction means it’s going to stay in the fight a lot longer than you would think.

We are about 1/2 way through questioning the townsfolk. The Boar went down in 1 round due to a crit from the Redeemer, but the Caustic Wolf took 2 of our 4 PCs to dying 1. Failed Ref on the Acid breath and Crit on a bite. I find damage can be really swingy due to +10 crits (not a bad thing, just an observation).

OH and the level -1 Farmers! They hit like a ton of bricks!
Having fun so far, but my players all guessed pretty much immediately that 1) someone was getting poisoned at dinner, 2) Phinick was in on it, and 3) Hallod is also in on it.
These were just out of the blue guesses without any evidence to back it up (unconfirmed by me but obviously correct) but chapter 1 at least is not very surprising for a more experienced group.


Aswaarg wrote:

I´m going to start Part 3 next time so I can´t help you there, but tips for Part 1 and 2.

Part 1: In the mangy wolves atack, if your players don´t want to get down the cart, atack the horses, and the drivers, that should make some heroes to get down the ground and get some scratches.

100% what I did here. One horse was critted by a mangy wolf and almost killed it outright. That got the Redeemer and Monk out of the wagon pretty quick.

One issue we had was the Monk was rolling sub-5 pretty much all night. That helped drag out fights (and thus increase damage to PCs) since she wasn't really contributing.

Paizo Employee Customer Service Representative

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Posts were removed for being off topic, confrontational and racist.

People face discrimination every single day in the real world. It's not asking a lot to be freed from discrimination in published adventures for a fantasy game. Encountering and addressing these issues is something a homebrew game can do really well with consent from the players. Additionally, the Adventures and Adventure Paths can be used as guidelines for your own play and preference, with flavor and characters added in to build your world. I'm sure many of the characters in this Adventure have rich backstories that you'll never hear about - that's a normal thing that happens. That doesn't mean those backstories don't exist.


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Aswaarg wrote:
The Blood Ooze can be a TPK if your players are the kind of charging as first action.

I can second that, I just ran the Blood Ooze fight earlier today and that thing is nasty. Lots of health, high attack and damage, a solid AoE, and healing abilities... If I hadn't allowed the party to make a couple of retcons (most of them are new to RPGs, so I try to be lenient), it almost certainly would've been over. Depending on your party you may want to ignore the crit immunity; only one of my players was really built for DPS and with the Ooze's low AC, having reliable crits helped balance its high hp.

I also ended up having the Sculptor flee when the Blood Ooze died. It thematically made sense when he lost his minion, and it gave the players a much-needed break. Plus, having him be able to escape and sound off a warning to Vilree before the party gets to Spite's Cradle is a more interesting consequence for "failure" in the fight than just killing off players.


Lord Bowser wrote:
Aswaarg wrote:
The Blood Ooze can be a TPK if your players are the kind of charging as first action.

I can second that, I just ran the Blood Ooze fight earlier today and that thing is nasty. Lots of health, high attack and damage, a solid AoE, and healing abilities... If I hadn't allowed the party to make a couple of retcons (most of them are new to RPGs, so I try to be lenient), it almost certainly would've been over. Depending on your party you may want to ignore the crit immunity; only one of my players was really built for DPS and with the Ooze's low AC, having reliable crits helped balance its high hp.

I also ended up having the Sculptor flee when the Blood Ooze died. It thematically made sense when he lost his minion, and it gave the players a much-needed break. Plus, having him be able to escape and sound off a warning to Vilree before the party gets to Spite's Cradle is a more interesting consequence for "failure" in the fight than just killing off players.

The Sculptor in my game run away alive too. But in my case I´m making him afraid of coming back to Vilree. That way I have a Bad guy for another time and the Part 3 is not harder.


I seem to be coming up short on exp for Part 2. I only add up a total of 860 for the whole of part two.

my math:
G1: Rotten Corpse severe 2- 120 xp
G2: Foul Den severe 2- 120 xp
H1: Forest Guardians moderate 2- 80 xp
H2: The Yard severe 2- 120 xp
H4: Forest Laboratory Moderate 2-80 xp
H7 & H8: Lair of the Sculptor + True Experiment Extreme 2- 160 xp

120+120+80+120+80+160= 680 xp

Discover pool 30xp
Open Thorn Iris 10xp
Help fire leopard 30xp
Examine Sculptor’s notes 30xp
Complete Pen 80xp
+180 = 860xp

Any one else have this problem or see where I am missing exp?


Ended up with just four players, fourth decided to pick an Investigator over a Witch. In my opinion, the session was kind of a disaster, mostly because it was much-abbreviated and started late, and consisted solely of the opening combat. They had hardly any opportunity to speak in character, and I felt really bad about it.

Most of that wolf combat was a lot of us all double checking rules and triple checking how things worked (and tech support). The Cleric made a lot of use of his divine font to keep people standing, and the caustic wolf managed to vomit all over the Redeemer and the Investigator.

I feel like the wolves' AC may be just a point too high, but at least they died fast when they got hit. All in all, very little to actually talk about... but means I can prepare more solidly for session 2.

Party comp:
Elf Ranger (Precision)
Hobgoblin Redeemer (of Shelyn)
Dwarf Investigator (forensic medicine)
Human Cleric (of Pharasma)


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Kelseus wrote:

I seem to be coming up short on exp for Part 2. I only add up a total of 860 for the whole of part two.

** spoiler omitted **

Any one else have this problem or see where I am missing exp?

According to Andrew Mullen's XP spreadsheet, opening the thorn iris should be 30 XP. Surviving the fiery leopard gives you 30 XP in addition to the 30 XP for calming and releasing it. The Sculptor is 80 XP and the Blood Ooze 120 for a total of 200 XP in H7 & H8. He has a total of 950 XP in part 2, with 122 carried over into 2nd level from part 1.


Joana wrote:
Kelseus wrote:

I seem to be coming up short on exp for Part 2. I only add up a total of 860 for the whole of part two.

** spoiler omitted **

Any one else have this problem or see where I am missing exp?

According to Andrew Mullen's XP spreadsheet, opening the thorn iris should be 30 XP. Surviving the fiery leopard gives you 30 XP in addition to the 30 XP for calming and releasing it. The Sculptor is 80 XP and the Blood Ooze 120 for a total of 200 XP in H7 & H8. He has a total of 950 XP in part 2, with 122 carried over into 2nd level from part 1.

I can see separating out the Sculptor and Blood Ooze. I double checked the book and it clearly says "10" for the Iris. I also can't see double dipping for the fiery leopard. I guess there should be a bump in exp for the hazards of the mindfuddle mist and the pond in the pen area.

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