Getting my Bonded Holy Symbol Back


Advice

Scarab Sages

So my GM, that I have known for 8 years, has possibly allowed a fellow party member steal my ecclesithurge's bonded holy symbol. I made my perception check in the morning to notice it was being stolen, but failed the check. The Paladin (played by the DM since the player was not available) mentioned that they saw the female rogue rummaging through his things and the rogue refused to give an answer. A week after this, my the GM had me do another perception check and my cleric noticed that my holy symbol was gone. I have already argued with the GM how this is unrealistic that my ecclesithurge cleric could go a week without noticing his bonded holy symbol was missing. He essentially told me this is the story he has told and I have to go with it.

I questioned the party members and the NPCs with our party and I found that the thief and the satyr druid (both played by females players who I believe do not like me OOC) were hiding something when I made a sense motive check. Regardless, they refused to admit to stealing it and stated the last time they saw it was a week ago and so we moved on to one of the large cities on the continent. I now plan to try and find my holy symbol next session and need advice for doing so. We are all level 3 and I do not have access to Locate Object since that is 3rd level for a cleric and Communion is a 5th level spell. I could buy a scroll of locate object and see if indeed one of my party members have it on their person.

Since I worship an Empyreal Lord, Winlas, I will not be able to go to a temple to my deity for assistance. I do however have good relations with Abadar and Irori priest and could request they cast communion for me and help me in getting my holy symbol back.

The Exchange

Well, without it, you have top make DC 20 + spell level every time you cast. Fail enough healing spells on them and see what happens.

Scarab Sages

Jeff Morse wrote:
Well, without it, you have top make DC 20 + spell level every time you cast. Fail enough healing spells on them and see what happens.

Well yeah this what is they will come to find out, but the druid in the party already complained that I am a useless cleric anyway so they would not care if I stand there and fail at casting my spells.


The only other thing I can think of that would work outside of what you've already brought up would be Dowsing Syrup. It's more expensive then the scroll but it doesn't seem to have any sort of range limit meaning it will create a trail directly to the item. Unless it's physically on a different plane.

Of course, the easiest option would be to simply replace it since the DM has already insisted that a week has gone by (which makes no sense to me, wouldn't it be part of the ritual to pray for spells each day? was the party memory wiped?).

Bonded Holy Symbol wrote:
At 3rd level, an ecclesitheurge forms a powerful bond with a holy symbol of his deity, which functions identically to a wizard’s bonded object except it can be used to cast cleric and domain spells (instead of wizard spells) and the ecclesitheurge can grant his bonded holy symbol only magic abilities appropriate for a holy symbol or a neck slot item.
Arcane Bond wrote:
If the object of an arcane bond is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week in a special ritual that costs 200 gp per wizard level plus the cost of the masterwork item. This ritual takes 8 hours to complete. Items replaced in this way do not possess any of the additional enchantments of the previous bonded item.

So, at your level you'd be looking at spending 600gp + the cost of the holy symbol to replace it. So, any solution you use should cost less than this. (the aforementioned syrup only falls under this category if you're able to create it at cost). Even using the scroll seems risky since the spell is easily blocked and has a relatively short range and at that point you've already spent half the needed gold to simply replace the symbol.


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This is not an ingame problem. Don't even try to fix it with ingame means!

Seriously, talk with the GM. There is no way a Cleric doesn't notice their bonded holy symbol missing. You wouldn't even need to make a perception check, you'd notice that the very first morning - it is, after all you, most priced possession. The Cleric should have noticed it, and demanded a strip search of every single party member. Although I find it weird that your character apparently doesn't keep it on their body when sleeping?

Ask the GM why he is completely crippling your character. Ask the GM why he is apparently supporting PVP. Tell the GM that this is not what you (presumably) agreed to play.

Scarab Sages

LordKailas wrote:

The only other thing I can think of that would work outside of what you've already brought up would be Dowsing Syrup. It's more expensive then the scroll but it doesn't seem to have any sort of range limit meaning it will create a trail directly to the item. Unless it's physically on a different plane.

Of course, the easiest option would be to simply replace it since the DM has already insisted that a week has gone by (which makes no sense to me, wouldn't it be part of the ritual to pray for spells each day? was the party memory wiped?).

Bonded Holy Symbol wrote:
At 3rd level, an ecclesitheurge forms a powerful bond with a holy symbol of his deity, which functions identically to a wizard’s bonded object except it can be used to cast cleric and domain spells (instead of wizard spells) and the ecclesitheurge can grant his bonded holy symbol only magic abilities appropriate for a holy symbol or a neck slot item.
Arcane Bond wrote:
If the object of an arcane bond is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week in a special ritual that costs 200 gp per wizard level plus the cost of the masterwork item. This ritual takes 8 hours to complete. Items replaced in this way do not possess any of the additional enchantments of the previous bonded item.

So, at your level you'd be looking at spending 600gp + the cost of the holy symbol to replace it. So, any solution you use should cost less than this. (the aforementioned syrup only falls under this category if you're able to create it at cost). Even using the scroll seems risky since the spell is easily blocked and has a relatively short range and at that point you've already spent half the needed gold to simply replace the symbol.

Replacing the symbol would cost me 1,100 gold since I had a Platinum symbol. I could go for a cheaper option this time to save cost. But I still demand justice if this is indeed a party member who took it. Otherwise, they could do it again.

Scarab Sages

Derklord wrote:

This is not an ingame problem. Don't even try to fix it with ingame means!

Seriously, talk with the GM. There is no way a Cleric doesn't notice their bonded holy symbol missing. You wouldn't even need to make a perception check, you'd notice that the very first morning - it is, after all you, most priced possession. The Cleric should have noticed it, and demanded a strip search of every single party member. Although I find it weird that your character apparently doesn't keep it on their body when sleeping?

Ask the GM why he is completely crippling your character. Ask the GM why he is apparently supporting PVP. Tell the GM that this is not what you (presumably) agreed to play.

My GM has already told me to let the issue go, he will not change the fact that a week went by before my cleric noticed it was gone. I already stated my cleric wears the holy symbol at all times and only takes it off to bathe and when he sleeps (This also depends on how shady the area is). There is no way he would have gone a week before noticing. Requesting the party to allow me to search through there belongings will not work since the druid and rogue already implied they will refuse to let me search them and they are willing to fight me for it!


Ugh. Disruptive party conflict allowed and actively encouraged by the GM. Great.

The normal advice is normally "solve this out of character, sit down and be adults", but that apparently didn't work. The follow-up is always "quit the game, no game is better than bad game" but you may not want to do that.

But you should. If two players are this petty and it's allowed by the GM, it's only going to get worse. Alternatively, do the immature thing and fight fire with fire.

the immature thing:
Dip one level into Oathkeeper Inquisitor, or just retrain fully into Oathkeeper/Sacred Huntsmaster.

Divine Witness wrote:

Every oathkeeper inquisitor develops a unique personal symbol, which she can use to seal an agreement between two or more willing parties. The agreement, whether it’s a trade contract, a truce, or a political marriage, must be as detailed as possible and then signed in the oathkeeper’s presence by every creature involved. Creatures must sign of their own free will—any magical or physical coercion will cause the contract to crumble into ash when the oathkeeper attempts to place her seal upon it. So long as no mystic or physical force is influencing any participating creature, the oathkeeper can mystically seal the arrangement with her personal symbol, binding all signing parties into upholding their ends of the bargain for the length of time spelled out in the agreement.

Should any oathbound creature break the exact wording of the contract, the agreement is dissolved and the offending creature is cursed, taking a penalty on all d20 rolls equal to the oathkeeper’s Wisdom modifier for a number of weeks equal to the oathkeeper’s inquisitor level. Furthermore, the inquisitor’s symbol appears as a mystic symbol on the offending creature’s throat and hands, allowing the oathkeeper to know the creature’s location at all times, as per the discern location spell.

If a creature is forced into breaking the agreement by magic or overwhelming physical force (for example, breaking an agreement not to harm via a compulsion spell or by physically hurling an oathbound creature to deal damage to another), then the agreement dissipates harmlessly. The oathkeeper’s curse is a curse effect, but it can be removed only with a miracle or wish spell.

Then make the party sign a whole bunch of completely reasonable contracts such as:

"nobody kills other party members"

"nobody attacks other party members"

"nobody betrays other party members"

"nobody steals from other party members"

"nobody deceives other party members with malicious intent"

Etc, etc.

Start out with the heavy stuff first, and if they refuse to sign a contract stating that they won't kill you, you really should have no in-character excuse to let them stay anywhere close to you. And when (not if) that "Chaotic Neutral" rogue's fingers start twitching, they get smoted into yesterday by your deity.

Best results if you don't explain the full ramifications behind the contract except "you'll be punished", and stack as many different contracts as you can to break at the same time. Enjoy -16 to all d20 rolls, hope it was worth it to annoy the party cleric.

Scarab Sages

Wonderstell wrote:

Ugh. Disruptive party conflict allowed and actively encouraged by the GM. Great.

The normal advice is normally "solve this out of character, sit down and be adults", but that apparently didn't work. The follow-up is always "quit the game, no game is better than bad game" but you may not want to do that.

But you should. If two players are this petty and it's allowed by the GM, it's only going to get worse. Alternatively, do the immature thing and fight fire with fire.

** spoiler omitted **

...

I was considering leaving due to this, but I have known this guy for 8 years and he has run some fun campaigns and games with various systems and he said he will allow me to do anything I want to get it back, so I want to give it one final shot this Friday to see how it goes. He has always made it clear since day one during the 4e days, that if a player does not like his decisions or DM/GMing style, they are free to leave (no hard feelings). He takes his own advice also and will leave a game he feels is not to his liking.


You've known the GM for a long time. Two of the other players maybe don't like you. This sounds like a complex situation, to say the least.

No player should take away another player's agency.

You, your GM and the other players have a right to define the kind of game you do and do not want to play.

The GM has told you to accept that "this is the story he has told." Why don't you sit down at the table and explain that this is not enjoyable for you, and to ask that the situation please be resolved. If they are unmoved by some honest vulnerability and simply don't care that they've made you uncomfortable, then leave. Walk out right there. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior. Anyone who disregards a friend's comfort and happiness is not a good friend.


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Derklord wrote:
Starcomet wrote:
...I questioned the party members and the NPCs with our party and I found that the thief and the satyr druid (both played by females players who I believe do not like me OOC) were hiding something....
This is not an ingame problem. Don't even try to fix it with ingame means!
Agreed. This reeks of "office politics", with several of the players and your GM "in" on it colluding behind your back.
Wonderstell wrote:
Ugh. Disruptive party conflict allowed and actively encouraged by the GM. Great.
(...)
Starcomet wrote:
My GM has already told me to let the issue go, he will not change the fact that a week went by before my cleric noticed it was gone. I already stated my cleric wears the holy symbol at all times and only takes it off to bathe and when he sleeps (This also depends on how shady the area is). There is no way he would have gone a week before noticing. Requesting the party to allow me to search through there belongings will not work since the druid and rogue already implied they will refuse to let me search them and they are willing to fight me for it!

Well, that's it, then. You're done.

Don't threaten to walk out, do walk out. No explanations, no advance calls or texts. You're just not there next session.

--You got better things to do with your life, and there are seven-going-on-eight billion other people out there you could be getting to know instead. MeetUp lists are everywhere. Maybe the AWOL player of the paladin was taking time away from your old group for a similar reason, and is also looking for something new.


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This isn't an IC problem. It's an OOC problem. Two players are f+$*ing you over for some reason, and the GM is for whatever reason enabling them. I suggest you talk it out OOC and find out why they're doing this.


So, your GM has allowed other players to take actions that cripple your character, esssentially requiring you to spend the several hpurs you set aside to participate in his game just spectating. Flipping awesome.

I would explain the situation in these terms, once, to both the players and the GM. If OOC apologies and in game corrections do not occur in the following sixty seconds I would walk and not look back.

Unless this is a PvP type game that you signed up for, in which case you start Coup de Gracing suspects in their sleep until you find your symbol.


If talking to the GM and player about this as an adult don't work by saying something like"Hey this isn't fun for me and I don't feel this an acceptable thing to do in game to each other" then just find an opportunity to kill the other player character. Preferably in their sleep.

But just be prepared to be killed. Of course, with your character effectively destroyed by these sort of actions there's not much left to lose.


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Starcomet wrote:
My GM has already told me to let the issue go, he will not change the fact that a week went by before my cleric noticed it was gone.

Doesn't matter. Look him in the eye, preferable with the other players present, and tell him "I've known you for 8 years and you ran fun campaigns, but right now, you're being a dick, and this is not fun for me. Either you stop that, or I'm out. This isn't Pathfinder, this is bullying."

If they care more about their little PVP than your fun; or worse if they laugh at your complaint, they're a~&@!#~s and bullies, and like it or not, you're finished with that group, period.

Scarab Sages

I decided to not show up to this Friday's game. If anyone contacts me I will explain my issue. I know this GM and he honestly does not care if people leave his game for not having fun. He is firmly in the philosophy that players can vote with their feet if they do not like what the GM has done. So no amount of my talking to him will change that. It is sad because it feels like he is allowing these two new players a lot of leeway even though he has only known them for a year.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I am at a loss as to how any players would think that sabotaging the party healer is a good idea. I have seen clerics refuse to heal other PCs for less than that.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Starcomet wrote:
I decided to not show up to this Friday's game. If anyone contacts me I will explain my issue. I know this GM and he honestly does not care if people leave his game for not having fun. He is firmly in the philosophy that players can vote with their feet if they do not like what the GM has done. So no amount of my talking to him will change that. It is sad because it feels like he is allowing these two new players a lot of leeway even though he has only known them for a year.

Despite the fact that you have been treated badly, I think you should still at the minimum let the GM know you won't be playing anymore. That is just common courtesy, and doesn't cost you anything. A simple email saying that the game isn't fun for you so you won't be participating anymore is all that is required. You don't have to (and probably shouldn't) go into any details or justify your decision, but just informing him not to expect you is polite.


Dave Justus wrote:
Despite the fact that you have been treated badly, I think you should still at the minimum let the GM know you won't be playing anymore. That is just common courtesy, and doesn't cost you anything. A simple email saying that the game isn't fun for you so you won't be participating anymore is all that is required. You don't have to (and probably shouldn't) go into any details or justify your decision, but just informing him not to expect you is polite.

I second this.

Just dropping a quick "I don't feel like getting involved with a PVP game" line in text or email can mean a lot, especially if you're not planning on completely writing off that DM / friendship.

That might save you future strife, too, if he plans PVP games from the start and you get involved with a different game.


Derklord wrote:
Starcomet wrote:
My GM has already told me to let the issue go, he will not change the fact that a week went by before my cleric noticed it was gone.
Doesn't matter. Look him in the eye, preferable with the other players present, and tell him "I've known you for 8 years and you ran fun campaigns, but right now, you're being a dick, and this is not fun for me. Either you stop that, or I'm out. This isn't Pathfinder, this is bullying."

The problem with this scenario is that such an ultimatum has several probable outcome, none of which of get you what you want:

* The GM backpeddles, and so you sit down to play, thinking your speech intimidated a solution. But your words lingers over the table like a moist fart in a stuck elevator, and nobody has any fun that session. Later you get the call that you're disinvited.

* Like above, but you're not disinvited. However, the secured GM's promise to reform is hollow, and after a little while it's back-to-business-as-usual playing favorites -- but not before you've thrown considerably more good time after bad until finally departing.

* Or, instead of placating, the GM says there's room for only one alpha dog at his table, and points you toward the door. Result? You wasted your time driving over, and are now driving away angry, maybe with that burning face feeling if he laid some particularly choice commentary backed by a me-too chorus from the rogue and the druid players.

* Worst of all, you cave before pack-leader GM and play anyway, but now you're the groveling pup who'll be socially ranked dead-last, lower than before. Corporal Doormat, thy name is you.

Dave Justus wrote:
Starcomet wrote:
I decided to not show up to this Friday's game. If anyone contacts me I will explain my issue. I know this GM and he honestly does not care if people leave his game for not having fun. He is firmly in the philosophy that players can vote with their feet if they do not like what the GM has done. So no amount of my talking to him will change that. It is sad because it feels like he is allowing these two new players a lot of leeway even though he has only known them for a year.
Despite the fact that you have been treated badly, I think you should still at the minimum let the GM know you won't be playing anymore. That is just common courtesy, and doesn't cost you anything. A simple email saying that the game isn't fun for you so you won't be participating anymore is all that is required. You don't have to (and probably shouldn't) go into any details or justify your decision, but just informing him not to expect you is polite.

To each his own, but I disagree. if the situation truly is as Starcomet has described, I wouldn't say anything. His GM's behavior is passive-aggressive in the very least, with tension at the table steadily mounting to intolerable. The GM's pronouncement of "you can vote with your feet" is a pre-emptive declaration of my-way-or-the-highway. There's no reason to put up with this, and no explanations are necessary for one's absence.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Calling the GM passive-aggressive and describing the situation as steadily mounting seems like a bit of an overstatement.

What has been described is a fairly minor bit of PvP (stealing an item) and a GM who refused to go back on a ruling of when the PC noticed the problem (most likely due to not wanting to retcon time that had passed) and having a long standing policy of leave with no hard feelings if the game isn't for you.

That isn't to say that I think the player should continue in the game. The biggest trouble is that he believes some of the players dislike him and that it is crossing into their in character interactions in a way that clearly isn't fun. Leaving is probably the best answer. It also isn't to say that I don't think the GM should be more proactive in providing a fun table, but not all GMs are great at doing that, and sometimes they screw up at it.

If people are expecting you to be somewhere though and you aren't going to show it is basic courtesy to at least let them know. It doesn't matter whether or not they 'deserve' it or if they are the cause of the situation, letting them know you won't be there, and a brief explanation that the game isn't fun anymore so they won't expect you in future sessions is the quickest and simplest way to convey this information.

Whether or not you have been treated well being polite is usually the best course of action.


I wouldn't blame you for ghosting on them, but I wouldn't do it myself. Though that's more because I want a chance to stand up for myself than out of a sense of common courtesy.

This GM is doing it wrong. Those players are doing it wrong.
Sorry you had to deal with it. Hopefully you'll find a more enjoyable way to spend your time in the future.

Scarab Sages

I will let him know since I have known him for so long.

Scarab Sages

Oh and just to clarify, this is an online game through roll20 and discord.


It's entirely possible the DM is creating internal friction for some plot reasons! Not sure that's the case, but it's possible. It would potentially explain why he's insisting on railroading you into a certain set of actions you might take, but you've known him for a long time so you might know if that's in line with his thinking. I mean he DMPCed a Paladin that somehow allowed a rogue to rummage through another person's things and not intervene...would the normal player of that character allowed it?

Is this the first straw for you in this game, or have things been building up in this game? If this is the first thing, I can understand how upset you are, but it might be part of a bigger plan...are there any other players you can talk to separately to try to find out how they feel, or even to try to get some allies both OOC and in game?


Starcomet wrote:
Oh and just to clarify, this is an online game through roll20 and discord.

It is amazing how much easier it is to be a jerk to someone when you never actually face them.

The GM is being ridiculous. You can't be sure it is the other two players, and honestly you don't have to. If you have the conversation that "My character needs that holy symbol to pray for spells, and I pray for spells every day" but still insists it is a week before you notice then the GM needs to actually play that out because somebody in the party should notice your character acting weird for an entire week. As in I'd insist that the character would have to be subjected to some sort of mental or chemical domination that no 3rd level character would be able to pull off.

You can find a better GM than this guy. Tell him that. It won't help you, but it might help your friend improve himself. You on the other hand should walk. That guy doesn't deserve you in his game. Find something better to do with your time. Hopefully Pathfinder and with a better GM.

Scarab Sages

JiaYou wrote:

I mean he DMPCed a Paladin that somehow allowed a rogue to rummage through another person's things and not intervene...would the normal player of that character allowed it?

No, if he was there last Friday he would have interrogated the rogue to no end. And when my holy symbol disappeared, he would have backed me up and helped me interrogated them all. Without him there and when one of the other players had to leave early, I sort of was on my own sadly.

Scarab Sages

And I do not think this was part of the plot and was spontaneous since the holy symbol was stolen. He will include it as part of the plot though since he told me he would.


Character-wise, your character would just refuse to go along with the adventure until he finds his holy symbol. So, the party is parked until it gets found or they can go ahead without their cleric. Just bring some books or games for you to play while the rest of your party finds your holy symbol. Or since it's on Roll20, just play some computer games while the party wastes time.


JiaYou wrote:
It's entirely possible the DM is creating internal friction for some plot reasons!

If this is the case, then they're a bad DM.

Melkiador wrote:
Character-wise, your character would just refuse to go along with the adventure until he finds his holy symbol

While that's a valid course of action for the character, it's not for the player. Walk.


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Your problem is not the missing holy symbol. Your problem is that your GM is doing something stupid. At best, he's too insecure to admit it. At worst, he's a blithering tyrant who thinks his job is to tell the characters' story instead of setting up situations for the players to tell their own stories.

...Either that or your character failed a Will save at some point and had their mind messed with. Do your trust your GM enough to think that this is a possibility, or has that already been ruled out? If this is really what's happening, the GM ought to have simply taken you aside and mentioned that there were in-game reasons why the usual expectations don't apply and that the reasons would become clear later.

Either way, you are not in a healthy gaming situation, and that needs to be resolved before further gaming commences.

Quote:
And I do not think this was part of the plot and was spontaneous since the holy symbol was stolen.

Sounds like Option A then.

Scarab Sages

The GM is perfectly fine continuing on without me and some of the party is too. He had one of the Knight NPCs escorting our party to the city tell my character if he did not want to leave without his holy symbol, they would move on without him as they had to return to the city. If I decided to stay in the swamp and backtrack for it, he would have allowed it.

blahpers wrote:

Your problem is not the missing holy symbol. Your problem is that your GM is doing something stupid. At best, he's too insecure to admit it. At worst, he's a blithering tyrant who thinks his job is to tell the characters' story instead of setting up situations for the players to tell their own stories.

...Either that or your character failed a Will save at some point and had their mind messed with. Do your trust your GM enough to think that this is a possibility, or has that already been ruled out? If this is really what's happening, the GM ought to have simply taken you aside and mentioned that there were in-game reasons why the usual expectations don't apply and that the reasons would become clear later.

Either way, you are not in a healthy gaming situation, and that needs to be resolved before further gaming commences.

The only checks I made before and after we set off on our journey to the city were two perception checks. IF a spell was cast on me, I was not told to make a saving throw.

Scarab Sages

Meirril wrote:


The GM is being ridiculous. You can't be sure it is the other two players, and honestly you don't have to. If you have the conversation that "My character needs that holy symbol to pray for spells, and I pray for spells every day" but still insists it is a week before you notice then the GM needs to actually play that out because somebody in the party should notice your character acting weird for an entire week. As in I'd insist that the character would have to be subjected to some sort of mental or chemical domination that no 3rd level character would be able to pull off.

I actually told him that the only way it was possible for him not to notice is if he was under a VERY powerful suggestion spell that caused him to think he still had his holy symbol. The GM just replied, "How do you know that is not the case?" If that is the case, why no will save? And even a 20th level Suggestion spells last 20 hours and even extended with metamagic would be 40 hours.


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I tend to rule my table with an iron fist. This is a cooperative game but it's more mine than any of my players; none of them spent the time and effort I have.
This has led to a very small number of issues throughout my gaming career, but the overwhelming majority of the time my players have accepted my rulings because I am (1) open to discussion and (2) very clear that I am their advocate, not their enemy.

This DM sucks and these players suck. It's infuriating.

On the plus side, look at all the support you've got here. We're with you to the end on this one, comrade.

Scarab Sages

Quixote wrote:

I tend to rule my table with an iron fist. This is a cooperative game but it's more mine than any of my players; none of them spent the time and effort I have.

This has led to a very small number of issues throughout my gaming career, but the overwhelming majority of the time my players have accepted my rulings because I am (1) open to discussion and (2) very clear that I am their advocate, not their enemy.

This DM sucks and these players suck. It's infuriating.

On the plus side, look at all the support you've got here. We're with you to the end on this one, comrade.

Thank you! This GM is only open to discussion if everyone voices their opinion and he is more than willing to allow players to do things in his games that normally would not be allowed. The current game is a 3rd party game and he will allow many house rules to make stuff more interesting like running off a wall and attacking to do extra damage and such. It is just that he is very big on improvisation. If something unexpected happens in the game that he did not anticipate, like a player stealing from another player or killing an NPC, he will improvise and incorporate it into the story. He just wants everyone to know he will not always make scenarios that are nice to characters or make sense. I know that is how he is, but the fact he potentially allowed two players to conspire against me this way and gave no reason is infuriating.

And not all of the players suck. I am sure the Paladin and the Summoner would have sided with me if they were there last Friday.


And if you want to have a little fun before you ghost them, get a cheap replacement, and pvp the rogue to death in the middle of combat

Oh? You wanted healing? I'm sorry, I thought you wanted and inflict wounds, seeing as your full of negative energy

:D

It's better to just leave though, no game is better then a bad game, and on Roll20 you can find another group

Scarab Sages

Geruvurrda wrote:

And if you want to have a little fun before you ghost them, get a cheap replacement, and pvp the rogue to death in the middle of combat

Oh? You wanted healing? I'm sorry, I thought you wanted and inflict wounds, seeing as your full of negative energy

:D

It's better to just leave though, no game is better then a bad game, and on Roll20 you can find another group

Yeah, but I have known this group for years. It is just these two new players who seem to not like me for some reason. I will bow out of the game and refuse to play anymore games if they are in it until they apologize or become a lot less acerbic.


That's definitely the wise route, sorry about how the current game turned out :(

But good luck with future endeavors :D


Starcomet wrote:
Meirril wrote:


The GM is being ridiculous. You can't be sure it is the other two players, and honestly you don't have to. If you have the conversation that "My character needs that holy symbol to pray for spells, and I pray for spells every day" but still insists it is a week before you notice then the GM needs to actually play that out because somebody in the party should notice your character acting weird for an entire week. As in I'd insist that the character would have to be subjected to some sort of mental or chemical domination that no 3rd level character would be able to pull off.
I actually told him that the only way it was possible for him not to notice is if he was under a VERY powerful suggestion spell that caused him to think he still had his holy symbol. The GM just replied, "How do you know that is not the case?" If that is the case, why no will save? And even a 20th level Suggestion spells last 20 hours and even extended with metamagic would be 40 hours.

The GM could have made the Will save for you in secret. Some GMs do that in situations where the PCs would have no way of knowing that they were subjected to a mind-affecting effect.


Starcomet wrote:
Geruvurrda wrote:

And if you want to have a little fun before you ghost them, get a cheap replacement, and pvp the rogue to death in the middle of combat

Oh? You wanted healing? I'm sorry, I thought you wanted and inflict wounds, seeing as your full of negative energy

:D

It's better to just leave though, no game is better then a bad game, and on Roll20 you can find another group

Yeah, but I have known this group for years. It is just these two new players who seem to not like me for some reason. I will bow out of the game and refuse to play anymore games if they are in it until they apologize or become a lot less acerbic.

Ugh. I feel ya. Sometimes that's the only option, but that doesn't make it any less lousy.

Scarab Sages

blahpers wrote:
Starcomet wrote:
Meirril wrote:


The GM is being ridiculous. You can't be sure it is the other two players, and honestly you don't have to. If you have the conversation that "My character needs that holy symbol to pray for spells, and I pray for spells every day" but still insists it is a week before you notice then the GM needs to actually play that out because somebody in the party should notice your character acting weird for an entire week. As in I'd insist that the character would have to be subjected to some sort of mental or chemical domination that no 3rd level character would be able to pull off.
I actually told him that the only way it was possible for him not to notice is if he was under a VERY powerful suggestion spell that caused him to think he still had his holy symbol. The GM just replied, "How do you know that is not the case?" If that is the case, why no will save? And even a 20th level Suggestion spells last 20 hours and even extended with metamagic would be 40 hours.
The GM could have made the Will save for you in secret. Some GMs do that in situations where the PCs would have no way of knowing that they were subjected to a mind-affecting effect.

That is possible, but it does not explain the effect lasting as long as a week. And most spells would require line of effect and sight. If it was done near me, I would have heard or seen someone chanting or making hand gestures. The question would be, when did this individual had a chance to cast such a spell? I was always around my allies when we traveled and no one in the villages had the knowledge for any type of magic that strong. Occam's razor suggest there must be a simpler explanation.

This is assuming it was some unknown NPC that did it.

Scarab Sages

Why did my sense motive check indicate that the rogue and druid were evading my questions and hiding something? If no one in the party did it, the GM should have indicated this with my high sense motive.


You could buy a wand of detect metal and hope the party hasn't sold it yet. You could also suck it up and get a holy symbol tattoo as your bonded holy symbol and write the event off as bad luck. At least then you get a free bonus item slot as you can enchant your holy symbol with neck slot enchants.

It does sound like you're being screwed with, but I don't know anyone involved so it's hard to judge. If the story being told means that you have no access to your class abilities, then that's not really a very fun story regardless of the intent.


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Starcomet wrote:
Oh and just to clarify, this is an online game through roll20 and discord.

Um, have you met any of these people IRL for F2F play?

I'm getting the impression that leaving this bunch behind is going to be a whole lot less painful than it initially appeared. It may be heresy in certain quarters, but sometimes you just need to turn off the computer and get out of the house.

Scarab Sages

Slim Jim wrote:
Starcomet wrote:
Oh and just to clarify, this is an online game through roll20 and discord.

Um, have you met any of these people IRL for F2F play?

I'm getting the impression that leaving this bunch behind is going to be a whole lot less painful than it initially appeared. It may be heresy in certain quarters, but sometimes you just need to turn off the computer and get out of the house.

I have not met any of these individuals F2F before out of the many years I have known them. I do attend a local PFS group though and have been doing so for 2 years now.


At the end of the day, if the GM doesn't trust you not to metagame and can't tell you directly "Hey, there's something that happened as part of the story and I understand it doesn't make sense but I need you to roll with it" then there's a problem.

If the GM did say that at least you would understand this isn't arbitrary, perhaps your character (or the others) had been subject to magical spells that was causing all this.

But your GM mostly just seems to be facilitating the other players being a jerk to you.

Silver Crusade

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@OP: I think you should ask yourself: Why do I want to play with these people?

They're not your friends, IMHO — that's not how real friends behave. The fact that you've played with them for several years is not a reason to continue — that would be falling for the sunk cost fallacy.


Finding a good online group can be really, really difficult. I've gone through many to find the two good ones I'm in now. Sometimes it's obvious from the start, but other times people are good at hiding their toxic natures until you get to know them.

Scarab Sages

The player who likely took it stated they would tell me where it is next session, since I am not able to play this today. I will see how it resolves next week.


Great! Now you can see if continuing to play in the game just results in you being trolled, or if you can get back on the fun train.

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