Esoteric Polymath


Rules Discussion


Hello all, sorry for the noob question here. This feat states I keep a book similar to a wizard and I can add all my spells from my repertoire to this book. It goes on to say "during your daily preparations, choose any one spell from your book..." I didn't know a Bard had to prepare his spells? I thought he functioned like a Sorcerer did in PF1 where he can cast any spell in his repertoire (in this case his book)?


See relevant passages below. You effectively recharge your slots only, unlike a prepared caster who has to make specific choices. But you do have a daily preparation.

Rest and Daily Preparation wrote:

Source Core Rulebook pg. 480

You perform at your best when you take enough time to rest and prepare. Once every 24 hours, you can take a period of rest (typically 8 hours), after which you regain Hit Points equal to your Constitution modifier (minimum 1) times your level, and you might recover from or improve certain conditions (page 453). Sleeping in armor results in poor rest that leaves you fatigued. If you go more than 16 hours without resting, you become fatigued (you cannot recover from this until you rest at least 6 continuous hours).

After you rest, you make your daily preparations, which takes around 1 hour. You can prepare only if you’ve rested, and only once per day. Preparing includes the following:

  • Spellcasters regain spell slots, and prepared spellcasters choose spells to have available that day.
  • Focus Points, other abilities that refresh during your preparations, and abilities that can be used only a certain number of times per day, including magic item uses, are reset.
  • You don armor and equip weapons and other gear.
  • You invest up to 10 worn magic items to gain their benefits for the day.
  • Spontaneous Spells wrote:

    Source Core Rulebook pg. 298

    If you’re a spontaneous spellcaster—such as a bard or a sorcerer—you choose which spell you’re using a spell slot for at the moment you decide to cast it. This provides you with more freedom in your spellcasting, but you have fewer spells in your spell repertoire, as determined by your character level and class. When you make your daily preparations, all your spell slots are refreshed, but you don’t get to change the spells in your repertoire.


    I think when you take the spell book option it means to access those spells you have to prepare them (if they're not in your repertoire) or that it makes it a signature spell if you already do.

    So it adds a benefit if you take time to prepare, but I don't think it changes the whole of how your spell casting functions. It just adds a benefit if you do take time to prepare.

    Edit: So it this case it seems they're using the phrase "daily preparations" as something everyone does.

    That's not confusing at all.


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    This feat has a couple of important parts.

    1)You keep a spell book with all your occult spells in it. This includes all your "repetoire" spells.
    2)You can use the Occultism skill to learn occult spells. This means you can learn Occult spells that are not part of your normal spell "repertoire".
    3) During daily preparations you can take any one spell in your book and add it to your repertoire. If this one of the spells already in your repertoire it becomes a signature spells, if it isn't then you treat as any other spell in your repertoire until you prepare spells again the next day.

    It has two powerful effects. One it gives you potential access to additional occult spells if you can hunt them down and learn them. Two it gives you one extra spell a day that you can cast.

    Example, a 6th lvl bard with esoteric polymath would have 5 cantrips, 3- 1st level spells, 3- 2nd level spells, and 3 -3rd level spells in their repertoire. The bard could then choose any one spell that they learned (which they have scribed in their spell book) and add it to that repertoire, so they might have 4- 3rd level spells that they could cast, but still would only be able to cast 3- 3rd level spells a day.

    It gives the bard a bit of flexibility in that you can choose a spell to add to your repertoire each day which might give you an advantage in situations you know you are going to face.

    At least, this is my understanding of how this feat works.


    Joey Cote wrote:

    This feat has a couple of important parts.

    1)You keep a spell book with all your occult spells in it. This includes all your "repetoire" spells.
    2)You can use the Occultism skill to learn occult spells. This means you can learn Occult spells that are not part of your normal spell "repertoire".
    3) During daily preparations you can take any one spell in your book and add it to your repertoire. If this one of the spells already in your repertoire it becomes a signature spells, if it isn't then you treat as any other spell in your repertoire until you prepare spells again the next day.

    It has two powerful effects. One it gives you potential access to additional occult spells if you can hunt them down and learn them. Two it gives you one extra spell a day that you can cast.

    Example, a 6th lvl bard with esoteric polymath would have 5 cantrips, 3- 1st level spells, 3- 2nd level spells, and 3 -3rd level spells in their repertoire. The bard could then choose any one spell that they learned (which they have scribed in their spell book) and add it to that repertoire, so they might have 4- 3rd level spells that they could cast, but still would only be able to cast 3- 3rd level spells a day.

    It gives the bard a bit of flexibility in that you can choose a spell to add to your repertoire each day which might give you an advantage in situations you know you are going to face.

    At least, this is my understanding of how this feat works.

    Yes.

    You choose one spell from your book every day.
    1. If you don't know the spell, now you do for the day.
    2. If you do know the spell, it's now a Signature Spell for the day.

    So even if you don't expand the book beyond what you know, you can still get flexibility out of it.
    Example: If you expected lots of curses that day, you could make Remove Curse a Signature Spell so you can use your highest slots to cast it (and improve the odds of countering). That's typically not a spell you'd make a Signature Spell, I'd think, nor have at your highest levels yet it can be handy for that situation.


    Ohh I see, so it's not as good as I thought. I originally thought you could learn as many spells as you wanted and put them in your spell book and then each day you had a choice of any 3 spells to cast for each level that you had access to in your book.


    Atalius wrote:
    Ohh I see, so it's not as good as I thought. I originally thought you could learn as many spells as you wanted and put them in your spell book and then each day you had a choice of any 3 spells to cast for each level that you had access to in your book.

    No, it's not that good. That would basically turn the bard into a prepared caster with the occult list.

    However, the spontaneous nature of the class is why it gets a signature spell at each spell level.


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    Note that Eclectic Polymath at level 12 does allow you to gradually (1 spell per day) revise your repertoire and shift it towards other spells in your book as you forget one and replace it. You just can't swap them all out every day.


    Interesting, is this considered the best class feat at level 2? Or which one do you guys like more?


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    It depends on what kind of character you want to build.

    I built a Maestro bard and didn't pick up a second muse. I suppose I have less versatility in the long run, but how valuable it is...I'm not sure. Scrolls, staves, and wands can potentially fill that gap in my opinion.

    Impossible polymath does expand your options to other spell lists, which maybe is a big deal. But it's an 18th level ability, and very few games reach that point, so I'm not terribly concerned about it.

    Besides which, the things that you can do as a Maestro can be equally powerful and interesting, IMO.


    Claxon wrote:

    It depends on what kind of character you want to build.

    I built a Maestro bard and didn't pick up a second muse. I suppose I have less versatility in the long run, but how valuable it is...I'm not sure. Scrolls, staves, and wands can potentially fill that gap in my opinion.

    Impossible polymath does expand your options to other spell lists, which maybe is a big deal. But it's an 18th level ability, and very few games reach that point, so I'm not terribly concerned about it.

    Besides which, the things that you can do as a Maestro can be equally powerful and interesting, IMO.

    Interesting, if you don't mind what did your build look like?


    Everyone has "daily preparations", even non-casters, even if they don't currently have any abilities that mention it.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Atalius wrote:
    Claxon wrote:

    It depends on what kind of character you want to build.

    I built a Maestro bard and didn't pick up a second muse. I suppose I have less versatility in the long run, but how valuable it is...I'm not sure. Scrolls, staves, and wands can potentially fill that gap in my opinion.

    Impossible polymath does expand your options to other spell lists, which maybe is a big deal. But it's an 18th level ability, and very few games reach that point, so I'm not terribly concerned about it.

    Besides which, the things that you can do as a Maestro can be equally powerful and interesting, IMO.

    Interesting, if you don't mind what did your build look like?

    It's not complete and i'm not even sure it's good. Just something I was fooling around with based on an idea I had.

    Quote:


    Ak Tor
    Male goblin bard 20 Core Rulebook 386, 386, 386
    Common, CG, Small, Goblin, Humanoid
    Perception +26; darkvision
    Languages Common, Gnomish, Goblin
    Skills Acrobatics +27, Arcana +26, Deception +37 (+39 vs a target that failed to Lie to you or you successfully used the Seek action against.), Diplomacy +37 (+39 vs a target that failed to Lie to you or you successfully used the Seek action against., When you Request something, you treat a critical failure as a failure.), Intimidation +29 (+31 vs a target that failed to Lie to you or you successfully used the Seek action against.), Medicine +22, Occultism +26, Performance +35 (+37 vs a target that failed to Lie to you or you successfully used the Seek action against., +37 when making a performance of type Acting., +37 when acting, orating, performing comedy, or singing.), Religion +22, Society +26, Stealth +27, Theater Lore +26
    Str 16 (+3), Dex 20 (+5), Con 18 (+4), Int 18 (+4), Wis 10 (+0), Cha 24 (+7)
    Other Items +3 major resilient leather armor, +2 greater striking rapier, dagger, mentalist’s staff, major, sling (20 sling bullets), staff of enchantment, greater, backpack, [i]bag of holding II[/i], bandolier, bedroll, belt pouch, belt pouch, chalks (10), [i]circlet of persuasion[/i], clothing, fine, clothing, high-fashion fine, clothing, ordinary, coins (worth 206,000 cr, 1 bulk), flint and steel, [i]hat of disguise, greater[/i], material component pouch, mirror, musical instrument, handheld virtuoso, pack animal, [i]persona mask, greater[/i], rations (1 week)s (2), religious text, rope (foot)s (50), sheath, signal whistle, soap, tent, pup, torchs (5), [i]traveler’s any-tool[/i], waterskin, writing set, coins (worth 206,000 cr, 1 bulk), purse (91 gp; 5 sp; 2 cp)
    --------------------
    AC 42; Fort +31; Ref +30; Will +31 (When you succeed at a saving throw, treat the outcome as a critical success.); +4 vs a spell you had Critical Success in identifying., +5 vs afflictions and sickened condition, but only if it resulted from something you ate.
    HP 246 Focus Points 3 Hero Points 1
    --------------------
    Speed 25 feet
    Melee [1] +2 greater striking rapier +31 (deadly d8, disarm, finesse), Damage 3d6+5 piercing
    Melee [1] dagger +29 (agile, finesse, thrown 10 ft., versatile S), Damage 1d4+5 piercing/slashing
    Melee [1] mentalist’s staff, major +27 (two-hand d8, divination, magical,staff), Damage 1d4+5 bludgeoning
    Melee [1] staff of enchantment, greater +27 (two-hand d8, enchantment, magical,staff), Damage 1d4+5 bludgeoning
    Ranged [1] dagger +29 (agile, finesse, thrown 10 ft., versatile S), Damage 1d4+5 piercing/slashing
    Ranged [1] sling +29 (propulsive, range increment 50 feet, reload 1), Damage 1d6+3 bludgeoning
    Occult Bard Occult Spellcasting DC 17; 9th (3 slots) unfathomable song, weird 5th (3 slots) synesthesia 1st (3 slots) soothe Cantrips (10th) detect magic, mage hand, prestidigitation, read aura, sigil
    Feats Allegro, Charming Liar, Confabulator, Effortless Concentration, Eternal Composition, Expeditious Search, Fascinating Performance, Glad-hand, Goblin Scuttle, Goblin Song, Group Impression, Harmonize, Inspirational Focus, Inspire Competence, Inspire Defense, Inspire Heroics, Legendary Negotiation, Legendary Performer, Lengthy Diversion, Lie To Me, Lingering Composition, Melodious Spell, Quick Disguise, Recognize Spell, Shameless Request, Skittering Scuttle, Slippery Secrets, Symphony Of The Muse, Untrained Improvisation, Very Sneaky, Very, Very Sneaky, Virtuosic Performer
    Other Abilities greater resolve, irongut goblin, resolve, signature spells
    --------------------
    Born in the sewers below Absalom, Ak scavenged the streets of the great city to survive. He learned to be diplomatic and deceptive to avoid the wrath of the longshanks. Eventually he discovered that by acting a buffoon he could make money to survive. He started with simple buffoonery, but a cleric of Shelyn discovered him and encouraged him to develop his artistic talent further. He got into puppetry and become renowned as a children's entertainer. Eventually he was so popular and successful he got into serious acting.

    Ak uses hat of disguise to disguise self as a gnome in new cities. Ak had lots of bad experiences growing up as a goblin in a humans world, but the kindness of the cleric of Shelyn taught him to work through these difficulties and try to win over people. Still he is cautious in new places and slow to reveal he's a goblin.

    He's famous for his portrayal of the puppet "Pork Chop" (think Lamb Chop) and well as he's performance of King Lear (whatever the Golarion equivalent is).

    Alto sax for playing Careless Whisper.

    Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at https://www.wolflair.com
    Pathfinder and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Inc., and are used under license.


    If a sorcerer picks this feat up with MC, does it work with the sorcerer's repertoire, or only with the Bard MC spell repertoire?


    Claxon wrote:
    Atalius wrote:
    Claxon wrote:

    It depends on what kind of character you want to build.

    I built a Maestro bard and didn't pick up a second muse. I suppose I have less versatility in the long run, but how valuable it is...I'm not sure. Scrolls, staves, and wands can potentially fill that gap in my opinion.

    Impossible polymath does expand your options to other spell lists, which maybe is a big deal. But it's an 18th level ability, and very few games reach that point, so I'm not terribly concerned about it.

    Besides which, the things that you can do as a Maestro can be equally powerful and interesting, IMO.

    Interesting, if you don't mind what did your build look like?

    It's not complete and i'm not even sure it's good. Just something I was fooling around with based on an idea I had.

    Quote:


    Ak Tor
    Male goblin bard 20 Core Rulebook 386, 386, 386
    Common, CG, Small, Goblin, Humanoid
    Perception +26; darkvision
    Languages Common, Gnomish, Goblin
    Skills Acrobatics +27, Arcana +26, Deception +37 (+39 vs a target that failed to Lie to you or you successfully used the Seek action against.), Diplomacy +37 (+39 vs a target that failed to Lie to you or you successfully used the Seek action against., When you Request something, you treat a critical failure as a failure.), Intimidation +29 (+31 vs a target that failed to Lie to you or you successfully used the Seek action against.), Medicine +22, Occultism +26, Performance +35 (+37 vs a target that failed to Lie to you or you successfully used the Seek action against., +37 when making a performance of type Acting., +37 when acting, orating, performing comedy, or singing.), Religion +22, Society +26, Stealth +27, Theater Lore +26
    Str 16 (+3), Dex 20 (+5), Con 18 (+4), Int 18 (+4), Wis 10 (+0), Cha 24 (+7)
    Other Items +3 major resilient leather armor, +2 greater striking rapier, dagger, mentalist’s staff, major, sling (20 sling bullets), staff
    ...

    Interesting, but why 2 staves? You can only prepare one each day.

    Or is it for flexibility across days (some days using the one, other days using the other)

    Also, at that level, why not just add a "shifting" rune on your staff and have a "+2 greater striking shifting Staff of X" that you then proceed to shift to a rapier?

    This way you won't need weird action loses if you want to use your staff and your weapon in the same combat.

    Also, this way you also keep a magical greater striking weapon of different damage type if needed, or shift it to L weapon, and etc.

    No need to carry daggers and etc then.


    The two staves we're for flexibility across days.

    As for why not using shift? I didn't think of it. I also don't really intend to use a weapon very often.

    The daggers are just because they come with the class kit.

    As I said, it's not completely thought out.


    Garretmander wrote:
    If a sorcerer picks this feat up with MC, does it work with the sorcerer's repertoire, or only with the Bard MC spell repertoire?

    Esoteric Polymath only applies to Occult spells but it doesn't specify. So if you had an occult based Sorcerer then Esoteric Polymath would effect their Sorcerer spells.


    Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

    Sorcerers have their own version of the feat, and generally don't need to poach the bard's feat to have a similar effect. (Though I suppose they could try doubling up.)


    Ravingdork wrote:
    Sorcerers have their own version of the feat, and generally don't need to poach the bard's feat to have a similar effect. (Though I suppose they could try doubling up.)

    Ah, haven't read sorcerer very much so I didn't know that. Good to find out.


    Quote:
    Add all the spells in your repertoire to this book for free. You can use the Occultism skill to Learn Spells (page 238) and add them to your spellbook by paying the appropriate cost, similar to a wizard.

    When it says add spells in my repertoire for free it means going forward as well right?

    If yes what happens if I use the Swapping Spells in Your Repertoire option? So for example at level 5 I learn 2 level 3 spells and put them in my book. At level 6 I decide to switch one of them for a different one then add a new spell into my repertoire from leveling. Does my book now contain 4 level 3 spells?

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