Effective character starting wealth with a CR adjustment


Rules Questions


So I have a group of players all level five. One of the players wants to start at level three with a +2 template. My question is do I gear him with starting gold level 3 or level 5?


Level 5. He is playing a character which is effectively that level.

Though I'm not sure PF does level adjustments like you're suggesting at all, or at least not in that way.

Dark Archive

Templates were not made with players in mind, they were intended to be used only by monsters. Therefore there are no rules for handling that kind of thing.
By allowing your players to take templates you are in Homebrew territory, and you'll need to come up with something on your own.


That Crazy Alchemist is right that Pathfinder has no rules for player characters using templates. This is something I would strongly recommend against doing. The CR system is really only for determining XP awarded. It is as really poor mechanism to try and balance characters with.

Templates are incredibly powerful and more than likely you are going to create a severe imbalance in the party. Take the half celestial template. Assuming a 20pt buy the half celestial template gives stat adjustments equal to a 65 point buy. Would you allow another character to have a 65 point buy even if they were two levels lower? That does not even factor in the other abilities of the template. Add in the fact that the character also gets DR, 3 types of energy resistance, spell resistance and can fly. He also gets quite a few spell like abilities. Even if the character is two levels lower than the rest of the party he is going to be a lot tougher.


Just because he is tougher don’t make him unstoppable though. A half glabrezu to make a Draegloth. Yes they get spell like abilities and a bite pinch pinch but nothing that will completely break the party.


Also he is losing a total of 3 levels. The other players especially other casters will obliterate him.


That is exactly my point, in some ways he is a lot weaker than the rest of the party, but in other ways he is a lot stronger. Trying to write something to challenge him by himself is a tough, but when you add in the rest of the party it becomes even more difficult.

This is something I have tried and it never works out well. It seems like a cool idea, but it becomes a headache trying to balance things. But If this is your game so go ahead and give it a try.


I’ve had luck with it in the past. My old group allowed templates that were acquired if they did the leg work (Lich, Death Knight, Vampire, etc) while it did give them some cool abilities I or the rotating GM of the week was able to keep the threat balanced across the board. Almost all of the undead templates have a crippling weakness a clever spell caster can take advantage of as long as they overcome SR. The other character was a mutant (he Acquired via radiation; wr ruled that the chance to become a mutant depends on the intensity level of Radiation and only procs when the con damage taken is healed.) Even he was easy to manage.

I’ve done the CR “level” as a class level for inherited templates in the past and it does balance out. Sure the Template has better stats in certain areas but normally class abilities of other classes out weight those gained. Not to mention the loss of a a Hit die, potential skill ranks, and save bonuses. It equals out


I'd try to find a copy of (iirc) Savage Species. The whole book was essentially about turning monsters into PCs. and included EL (Effective Level) modifiers instead of CR ratings. Sometimes CR and EL are fairly close other times very definitely not. Lots of judgement involved.


I absolutely agree it is changes the balance templates from template. In my opinion some of the variant half fiend templates are not OP at all.


McDaygo wrote:
So I have a group of players all level five. One of the players wants to start at level three with a +2 template. My question is do I gear him with starting gold level 3 or level 5?

You stated you are starting with a 5th level party. They all therefore get 5th level wealth. That you allow one player a character that is level adjusted* does not change this.

/cevah

*Yeah, I know. LA does not exist in PF.


Cevah wrote:
McDaygo wrote:
So I have a group of players all level five. One of the players wants to start at level three with a +2 template. My question is do I gear him with starting gold level 3 or level 5?

You stated you are starting with a 5th level party. They all therefore get 5th level wealth. That you allow one player a character that is level adjusted* does not change this.

/cevah

*Yeah, I know. LA does not exist in PF.

This. They're still "fifth level"; they just took two of their levels in Weird Monster Race And/Or Template.

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