Can Weapon Specializations satisfy the prerequisite for Adaptive Fighting?


Rules Questions


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Adaptive Fighting, as a prerequisite, requries "3 or more combat feats."

Weapon Specialization is a combat feat that can be taken multiple times, once for each weapon type.

So at level 3 a Solarian gains Weapon Specialization (Advanced Melee), Weapon Specialization (Small Arms), and Weapon Specialization (Basic Melee). Each is technically an independent feat.

Do these three feats meet the prerequisite for Adaptive Fighting?


BastionofthePants wrote:

Adaptive Fighting, as a prerequisite, requries "3 or more combat feats."

Weapon Specialization is a combat feat that can be taken multiple times, once for each weapon type.

So at level 3 a Solarian gains Weapon Specialization (Advanced Melee), Weapon Specialization (Small Arms), and Weapon Specialization (Basic Melee). Each is technically an independent feat.

Do these three feats meet the prerequisite for Adaptive Fighting?

The specializations that you get from hitting 3rd level are class features, not feats, as far as I recall. If you don't actually have the feats, you can't take Adaptive Fighting.


Dracomicron wrote:


The specializations that you get from hitting 3rd level are class features, not feats, as far as I recall. If you don't actually have the feats, you can't take Adaptive Fighting.

According to the CRB: "You gain Weapon Specialization as a bonus feat for each weapon type for which this class grants you proficiency."

This would imply that you gain not just the benefits of weapon specialization, but rather you gain the feat itself. This is why it would satisfy prerequisites for things like Versatile Specialization or (maybe) Adaptive Fighting.


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I believe you are technically correct, the best kind of correct.

It's probably also unintended and against RAI, but I'd allow it, it doesn't sound horribly broken anyway.


Dracomicron wrote:
According to the CRB: "You gain Weapon Specialization as a bonus feat for each weapon type for which this class grants you proficiency."

That's how I read it. Says specifically that it grants them as bonus feats.

It's not like weapon/armor proficiency that classes grant, which are definitely not feats.

Very likely not intended, but who am I to question what the book explicitly states? And yes, not really broken anyway.


Huh, I'll be darned.


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Garretmander wrote:
I believe you are technically correct, the best kind of correct.

Nice. I see what you did there. :)


So a lvl 3 Envoy can take Versatile Weapon Specialization as their feat, since they meet the prereq. Thenv if they dip into Soldier at lvl 4, they immediately get specialization for every thing, at the cost of a (fairly useful) dip and a feat.

Does this seem OP/munchkinish to everyone, or fair play?

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Same would be true for any class dipping Soldier, and the answer is the same for them all: When you multiclass, you delay the progression of your primary class's abilities by X number of levels.

That's the Designer's idea of "fair play".

Personally, I don't think multiclassing is worth the trouble. While you might become better at a small handful of things than a single-classed character (saving throws are the only ones that come to mind), you lose out on the really cool higher level abilities.

But if it's worth it to you, go nuts ^_^


BastionofthePants wrote:

So a lvl 3 Envoy can take Versatile Weapon Specialization as their feat, since they meet the prereq. Thenv if they dip into Soldier at lvl 4, they immediately get specialization for every thing, at the cost of a (fairly useful) dip and a feat.

Does this seem OP/munchkinish to everyone, or fair play?

No, because how often do you use something that isn't your main weapon?


To post the RAI argument against this:

Why would the requirements of Adaptive Fighting list the requirement for taking the feat as having 3 other combat feats if all of the martial characters meet that requirement automatically at level 3? Also it seems a bit penalizing for the non-martial classes since they only get 2 weapon categories and therefore only 2 weapon specialization feats at level 3.

If the intent is to allow any character to take Adaptive Fighting at level 3, then that class level should be the requirement.

As written, the effect is to allow only certain classes with a wide range of weapon proficiencies to qualify for the feat automatically at a certain class level. That doesn't sit right with me.

Instead, I think that (like Dracomicron pointed out) that the class features at 3rd level should give the effects of weapon specialization for all of the weapons the class is proficient with, but doesn't actually grant the feats for purposes of other feat selection.

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The other feat that I think interacts with this is Versatile Specialization. Do you have to take Weapon Specialization in a non-class weapon category first before taking Versatile Specialization, or does the 3rd level class feature for weapon specialization qualify?

Sczarni

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Starfinder Charter Superscriber

If the feat you get at 3rd doesn't count as a prerequisite for Versatile Specialization, then literally everyone is doing it wrong.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Nefreet wrote:
If the feat you get at 3rd doesn't count as a prerequisite for Versatile Specialization, then literally everyone is doing it wrong.

Except for the Paizo folks making their example builds in the Core Rulebook. They have people taking the Weapon Specialization feat when they would already qualify for Versatile Specialization from being counted as having Weapon Specialization at 3rd level.


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David knott 242 wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
If the feat you get at 3rd doesn't count as a prerequisite for Versatile Specialization, then literally everyone is doing it wrong.

Except for the Paizo folks making their example builds in the Core Rulebook. They have people taking the Weapon Specialization feat when they would already qualify for Versatile Specialization from being counted as having Weapon Specialization at 3rd level.

It would still be valid for them to pick specialization for a specific weapon instead of versatile.

Stupid, but valid.


Nefreet wrote:
If the feat you get at 3rd doesn't count as a prerequisite for Versatile Specialization, then literally everyone is doing it wrong.

Our group also plays with it this way. No need to explicitly take Weapon Specialization as a feat tax. Whether that is a house rule or not is debatable.

For Adaptive Fighting, I would be good with the class-granted Weapon Specialization counting as one of the combat feats needed. But not all three. How about three separately-named combat feats? I don't know if there are other combat feats that have options like that. I guess Weapon Focus and maybe Weapon Proficiency. The other ones I can think of are general feats: Skill Synergy and Skill Focus.


breithauptclan wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
If the feat you get at 3rd doesn't count as a prerequisite for Versatile Specialization, then literally everyone is doing it wrong.

Our group also plays with it this way. No need to explicitly take Weapon Specialization as a feat tax. Whether that is a house rule or not is debatable.

For Adaptive Fighting, I would be good with the class-granted Weapon Specialization counting as one of the combat feats needed. But not all three. How about three separately-named combat feats? I don't know if there are other combat feats that have options like that. I guess Weapon Focus and maybe Weapon Proficiency. The other ones I can think of are general feats: Skill Synergy and Skill Focus.

When running my own table, I would agree with you on all counts. In a pure RAW setting, like SFS, I think I can and will take advantage of this for adaptive fighting; weird RAW>RAI rulings have hurt me enough that I don't feel too guilty letting them help me this time.

Gonna run it by my VC first.

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