Archetype Requests!


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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The Ancestry request thread came up with a lot of cool ideas a good information about what players want, so let's do it again with a different topic. This time let's talk about Archetypes, the LOWG makes it pretty clear that they are going to be the stand in for Prestige Classes and Templates, allowing you to add flavor and specialized abilities to your character in a slightly different way.

What Archetypes do you want to see? Which Prestige Classes and Templates do you want updated?

For me, I've always loves the Weretiger Template Class (and the entire idea of template classes) from 3.5, so a Lycanthrope Archetype would be great to see. As for Prestige Classes, I really really want to see a return of the Initiate of the Seven Fold Veil. My order of LGBT abjurers must rise again, and jokes aside the protective walls and spheres were super fun to use while being a defensive option.


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The first one off the top of my head? I’d love to see one for elemental focus on spell casters. A few focus spells and bonuses that key off specific damage types, a metamagic that affected resistance and immunity. It could be fun for Druids, wizards and sorcerers, maybe even clerics with the right gods. I always enjoyed playing casters that doubled down on a particular element. Right now it’s better to have a variety of damage types to trigger weaknesses, but a fun devotion could bring back being the firiest firemancer that ever did fire fire. May still be somewhat less effective but it could bring it within range of the other and wouldn’t rely on successful knowledge.


Urban Barbarian, Warrior Poet (artist glaive-wielding), Mindblade Magus, Watersinger Bard, Dervish Dancer, Archaeologist, Martial Artist Monk (at least the idea of exploiting the enemy weaknesses), Qigongg Monk, Mutagen Warrior Fighter, Inspired Blade (either for the upcoming swashbuckler or a fighter variant), Divine Hunter (Archer Paladin), Holy Gun (one that's actually good and fits the theme well), Sensei Monk, Empty Hand, Tattooed Sorcerer.

Some of these probably fit more as a class path or were already somewhat implemented (Qiggong and Martial Artist Monk).


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

A subtle caster archetype. Right now, only wizards can hide their casting in general, and bards can do it while performing. Enchanting Courtesan is a good model for an archetype, especially with the ability to pick and choose parts.


Assassin (Archetype)
Psionics (Class and variants)
Gunslinger (Class)


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i feel racial archetypes and template archetypes could be done by simply having an archetype that replaces a few class feats with ancestry feats and gives some additional options especially for higher level feats.

Personally i like the idea of classless archetypes or archetypes that can apply to any class, and so i like the idea of archetypes that give the user skill sets in to really specific things, say rituals to summon demons, maybe a skill set that's really good at breaking and entering, or just being a really good talker.


Lightning Raven wrote:

Urban Barbarian, Warrior Poet (artist glaive-wielding), Mindblade Magus, Watersinger Bard, Dervish Dancer, Archaeologist, Martial Artist Monk (at least the idea of exploiting the enemy weaknesses), Qigongg Monk, Mutagen Warrior Fighter, Inspired Blade (either for the upcoming swashbuckler or a fighter variant), Divine Hunter (Archer Paladin), Holy Gun (one that's actually good and fits the theme well), Sensei Monk, Empty Hand, Tattooed Sorcerer.

Some of these probably fit more as a class path or were already somewhat implemented (Qiggong and Martial Artist Monk).

Any fighter can be a mutation warrior now since mutagens are no longer locked to belonging to a specific person. Just play a fighter, pick up Alchemical Crafting and you should be good to go!

Not sure about divine hunter, but I don't think there is anything stopping you from using a ranged weapon as a champion as-is.

As for me, I wouldn't mind seeing some of the evil prestige classes make a comeback. Diabolist, demoniac, and souldrinker. Even if I don't play evil characters often I like seeing stuff for them.
I'd also like to see the new divine obedience archetypes as well, hopefully streamlined somewhat because the original three were a little clunky.

Also, an archetype that uses the Harrow.


Maybe it can be feasible. But I think it would be a perfect chance to make the archetype even more different. Basically, I'm expecting something in line with a Witcher and I don't feel that the current alchemist can deliver that through mutagens and mutagenist field of study we have right now.

For Divine Hunter, I think it's a significant playstyle change that could warrant an archetype, or maybe even just a new type of champion a purely neutral or lawful, a champion that upholds nature's balance in all things, it can grant wiggle room for a more ruthless Champion.

But honestly, even if there's some of these that can be recreated, it's nothing but a makeshift thing, specially since these ideas can be expanded upon, rather than just making them similar to what they were before (Divine Hunter offered a lot of the mandatory archery feats for example).


We should be getting our neutral and evil-aligned champions out at some point. I'm really looking forward to when we do. I want to play the truest neutral champion ever.


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A firearm-based one, obviously.

Something similar to 4e’s Warlord or the Pathfinder 1e Cavalier archetypes, for nonmagical support.

The core of the 1e Vigilante’s identity mechanics as something everyone can take.

Sword Saint.

An explicitly anti-mage option for martials.

Inquisitor. Honestly, a Smite-y divine option would be worth a lot here.

Telepath.

Bloodrager.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Master Chymist archetype.

Please?

Grand Lodge

The one I would love the most is a Sound Striker like set of feats


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Oh, I forgot a simple one I need real bad: Gloomblade/Soulknife! The whole conjured weapon thing is so much fun.

Grand Lodge

keftiu wrote:
Oh, I forgot a simple one I need real bad: Gloomblade/Soulknife! The whole conjured weapon thing is so much fun.

That would be epic


Maybe a redo of the Drake Companion rules found in the Legacy of Dragons supplement, redone as an archetype anyone can take.

Having a dragon drake buddy is a cool concept!


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Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Originally posted this in another thread but also seems appropriate here.

I went through all the Prestige Classes from 1E and grouped them by the ten meta-regions as best I could. This might give us an idea of what Archetypes we might see in the future, especially in regards to the specific meta-region.

Organizations By Region
Archetypes marked with * appear in the Lost Omens World Guide

-Absalom and Starstone Isle-
Knights of Ozem
- Archetype: Knight of Ozem (this is a best guess as far as current operating location)
Pathfinder Society
- Archetype: Pathfinder Agent*
- Archetype: Pathfinder Field Agent
- Archetype: Pathfinder Chronicler
- Archetype: Pathfinder Delver
- Archetype: Pathfinder Savant
- Archetype: Student of War
Inner Sea Pirates
- Archetype: Inner Sea Pirate

-Broken Lands-
Aldori Swordlords
- Archetype: Aldori Swordlord
- Archetype: Aldori Duelist*
Daggermark Poisoner’s Guild
- Archetype: Daggermark Poisoner
Razmiran Priesthood
- Archetype: Razmiran Priest
Riftwardens
- Archetype: Riftwarden
Technic League
- Archetype: Technomancer
Blackfire Adepts
- Archetype: Blachfire Adept
Low Templars
- Archetype: Low Templar
Stargazers
- Archetype: Stargazer

-Eye of Dread-
Whispering Way
- Archetype: Agent of the Grave
Sleepless Agency
- Archetype: Sleepless Detective
Chernasardo Wardens
- Archetype: Chernasardo Warden
Knights of Last Wall
- Archetype: Last Wall Sentry*

-Golden Road-
Al-Zabriti
- Archetype: Asavir
Living Monoliths
- Archetype: Living Monolith*
Pure Legion
- Archetype: Pure Legion Enforcers
Genie Binders
- Archetype: Genie Binder
Balanced Scales of Abadar
- Archetype: Balanced Scale of Abadar
Daivrat
- Archetype: Daivrat
Thuvian Alchemists
- Archetype: Thuvian Alchemist

-High Seas-
Red Mantis Assassins
- Archetype: Red Mantis Assassin*
- Archetype: Death Slayer
Shackles Pirates
- Archetype: Shackles Pirate

-Impossible Lands-
Arclords of Nex
- Archetype: Arclord of Nex
Shieldmarshals
- Archetype: Shieldmarshal
Students of Perfection
- Archetype: Student of Perfection*
Soul Wardens
- Archetype: Soul Warden

-Mwangi Expanse-
Magaambya
- Archetype: Magaambya Arcanist
- Archetype: Magic Warrior*
Storm Kindlers
- Archetype: Storm Kindler

-Old Cheliax-
Aspis Consortium
- Archetype: Aspis Agent
Bellflower Network
- Archetype: Bellflower Tiller
Hellknights
- Archetype: Hellknight Armiger*
- Archetype: Hellknight
- Archetype: Hellknight Signifer
Sanguine Angels
- Archetype: Sanguine Angel
Umbral Court
- Archetype: Umbral Court Agent
Council of Thieves
- Archetype: Westcrown Devil
Silver Ravens
- Archetype: Argent Dramaturge

-Saga Lands-
Bloatmages
- Archetype: Bloatmage
Brothers of the Seal
- Archetype: Brother of the Seal
Order of Cyphers
- Archetype: Cyphermage
Runeguards
- Archetype: Runeguard
Runescarred
- Archetype: Runescarred*
Winter Witches
- Archetype: Winter Witch
Ashavic Dancers
- Archetype: Ashavic Dancer
Harrowers
- Archetype: Harrower
Mammoth Riders
- Archetype: Mammoth Rider
Tattooed Mystics
- Archetype: Tattooed Mystic
Ulfen Guard (Could also go in the Shining Kingdoms)
- Archetype: Ulfen Guard

-Shining Kingdoms-
Eagle Knights
- Archetype: Golden Legionnaire
- Archetype: Gray Corsair
- Steel Falcon
- Twilight Talon
Gray Gardeners
- Archetype: Gray Gardner
Lantern Bearers
- Archetype: Lantern Bearer
Lion Blades
- Archetype: Lion Blade*
Prophets of Kalistrade
- Archetype: Prophet of Kalistrade
Rivethun
- Archetype: Rivethun Emissary
Brightness Seekers
- Archetype: Brightness Seeker
Skyseekers
- Archetype: Skyseeker

Specific Religious Traditions not Associated with a Region (as far as I can tell)

Sivannah
- Archetype: Veiled Illusionist
Green Faith
- Archetype: Green Faith Acolyte
Cayden Cailean
- Archetype: Brewkeeper
- Archetype: Chevalier
Irori
- Archetype: Champions of Irori
Ragathiel
- Crimson Templar
Kurgess
- Archetype: Darechaser
Sarenrae
- Archetype: Dawnflower Anchorite
- Archetype: Dawnflower Dissident
Shelyn
- Archetype: Devoted Muse
Iomedae
- Archetype: Heritor Knight
- Archetype: Inheritor’s Crusader
Erastil
- Archetype: Hinterlander
Abadar
- Archetype: Justicar
Zon-Kuthon
- Archetype: Paintaster
Milani
- Archetype: Rose Warden
Torag
- Archetype: Sacred Sentinel
Vildeis
- Scar Seeker
Desna
- Archetype: Sphere Singer
- Archetype: Spherewalker

Traditions Unassociated with a specific Locale, Religion, Institution, or Government (as far as I can tell)

Archetype: Arcane Archer
Archetype: Arcane Trickster
Archetype: Assassin
Archetype: Battle Herald
Archetype: Diabolist
Archetype: Demoniac
Archetype: Divine Scion
Archetype: Dragon Disciple
Archetype: Duelist
Archetype: Eldritch Knight
Archetype: Enchanting Courtesan
Archetype: Envoy of Balance
Archetype: Esoteric Knight
Archetype: Evangelist
Archetype: Exalted
Archetype: Feysworn
Archetype: Halfling Opportunist
Archetype: Holy Vindicator
Archetype: Horizon Walker
Archetype: Liberator
Archetype: Loremaster
Archetype: Master Chymist
Archetype: Master Spy
Archetype: Mystery Cultist
Archetype: Mystic Theurge
Archetype: Nature Warden
Archetype: Noble Scion
Archetype: Pit Fighter
Archetype: Proctor
Archetype: Rage Prophet
Archetype: Ritualist
Archetype: Sentinel
Archetype: Shadow Dancer
Archetype: Stalwart Defender
Archetype: Soul Drinker


I sort of want a Magic Missle prestige class. One that doesn't require them to have been a caster prior.

Likely one that works off Focus points and or grants their extrs slots or something. I don't know enough about the granular details of casting currently to really gauge.
but I know 3.5 had a really fun Magic Missle prestige.

I would like to see some more short but specific archetypes.
Dagger Throwing one for instnace.

I'd love an archetype all about the Aid Action. Giving boosts, or other ways to use it. Such as allowing you to boost AC with an aid action. Along with Bodyguard sort of style. and such.

I'd also love a "Puppetmaster" sort of way. Kind of like Lulu from FF10 and or the puppet powers from Naruto (i.e. The "strings" rather than dolls specifically) . But that might be too specific .. but I think it could be pulled off with their focus power system they have.


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While I'd be worried to tread on kineticist territory as I desperately want it to be added later, an archetype that is based around cantrips would be super cool.

Echoing soulblade/mindblade and gloomblade. Anything that can let a character summon weapons.

I always loved constructed pugilist (I think that's what it's called), the idea of having a clockwork/mechanical arm you add in cool abilities with through feats is so so cool.

It might be too complicated but the vigilante had such cool flavour and I think it could work well as an archetype.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I started a thread specifically on the Envoy of Balance


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I've always liked classes where they invest an item and it grows with the character. I started adventuring with my grandfather's sword and through rituals and developing a bond with the weapon it becomes something greater. Blackblade Magus, Kensai, Leveling magic items back in 3.5, there is a lot of headspace to work with.

Regarding the list of existing ones -- some of the hybrid classes like mystic theurge can be done with the new Dedication feats. While I know those classes gave abilities that couldn't be matched with the given system, I'd be hesitant to get into a situation where players start to say "this archetype replaces that Devotion because it has this new AWESOME power."


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Samurai could be a nice touch, because I'd like to see the distinct 'Samurai' flavor points be something any class has access to- ronin barbarian samurai, champion samurai, etc etc. it should basically be a kit to admixture samurai elements into the various classes.

Ninja has potential for more or less the same reason, adding some of that ninjutsu type stuff, and neat stealth features could be something that a rogue or monk, or even some kinds of spell casters, depending on how it was built.


The-Magic-Sword wrote:

Samurai could be a nice touch, because I'd like to see the distinct 'Samurai' flavor points be something any class has access to- ronin barbarian samurai, champion samurai, etc etc. it should basically be a kit to admixture samurai elements into the various classes.

Ninja has potential for more or less the same reason, adding some of that ninjutsu type stuff, and neat stealth features could be something that a rogue or monk, or even some kinds of spell casters, depending on how it was built.

I would probably see a Ninja archetype as one that probably gives either sneak attack or Focus Spells, probably built for Monks to dip into.


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keftiu wrote:
A firearm-based one, obviously.

NO PLEASE LORD DON'T, we don't need guns to be stuck on a specific archetype again. seriously, no one ever used guns unless they were a specific class, I really don't want to see a repeat of that.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
keftiu wrote:
The-Magic-Sword wrote:

Samurai could be a nice touch, because I'd like to see the distinct 'Samurai' flavor points be something any class has access to- ronin barbarian samurai, champion samurai, etc etc. it should basically be a kit to admixture samurai elements into the various classes.

Ninja has potential for more or less the same reason, adding some of that ninjutsu type stuff, and neat stealth features could be something that a rogue or monk, or even some kinds of spell casters, depending on how it was built.

I would probably see a Ninja archetype as one that probably gives either sneak attack or Focus Spells, probably built for Monks to dip into.

One of the neat things about the multiclassing system, is that archetypes don't need to be something every class wants every feature of- I can imagine a Ninja being an example, some classes might want the focus spells out of it for ninjutsu, other classes might want something like sneak attack out of it.

So long as they dedicate a few of the features to each thing, it could work pretty well- you could get a full ninja package by taking everything, or just pick up the bits and pieces they want that complement their base skillset and concept well.

Edit: In fact, to take this a step further- you could even have multiple dedication feats, whether for classes or archetypes, that offer different benefits- Dedication A is for the classes that are interested in the archetype for one reason, Dedication B is for the classes that are interested in the archetype for another, even if they're somewhat convergent if you keep taking features.


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A mage-knight archetypes that grant better weapon-spell synergy as well as expertise in medium and heavy armors.

Archetype granting animal (or even monstrous) companions with feats focused on improving them.

Archetype focused on various environments -- underwater, darklands, jungle, desert, arctic, the planes, etc. A good way to make sure that everyone in the party can be more or less equally competent at survival and adaptation if the campaign takes place in a unique environment.

Archetypes for transforming into a different creature type, like 1e's corruptions, but without turning a character into an NPC. A good way of playing vampires, lycanthropes, liches, half-golems, etc.


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Archetype for Wizards that allows to specialize in their school further, including interesting stuff like poaching school-appropriate crosstraditional spells.

Class Archetype for Wizard that switches them to Occult spell-list.

Some interesting Intelligence-focused archetypes that allow that stat to do cool stuff that is not casting wizard spells. Let my Fighter show off their Tactical Brilliance and my Rogue to unleas their Mastermind schemes!

Poisons and Sickness focused necromancy archetype for casters that allows you to get some fun with the Poison and Disease subsystems from the player side of the table.

"Gadgeeter" (Artificer?) aimed at Rogue, Alchemist and to lesser extent Fighter that is all about doing interesting thing with magic gear.

And for love that is all unholy, an Armor-proficiency providing archetype that isn't lore locked behind a specific organization so you suddenly won't have everyone who doesn't want to put Dex as their second highest stat but does not get Medium/Heavy Armor proficiency expertise from their class lining up their Hellknight applications. One of things that people told me about PF2 was that I can do my plate-encased wizard fantasy in this game and while it is true, it isn't exactly easy or friendly or even "good" to do.


VIGILANTE AS ARCHETYPE 2019!
That way my rogue can become Batman.

Niv Cel'on wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Oh, I forgot a simple one I need real bad: Gloomblade/Soulknife! The whole conjured weapon thing is so much fun.
That would be epic

Gloomblade rogue gives off some really tasty ninja vibes.

Dark Archive

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Something like the original Sa'hir, where the spells don't come as quickly as other casters, but you have the potential to gain access to other spell lists, or even higher level spells on your list, but it takes a longer period of time to do.

Perhaps with cantrips available, and some small thing, like the focus spells, that could be done without the gen, but the little elemental mini-genie is the way to gain access to the cool stuff. But, hey, might have to pay him, or convince him somehow.


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Jistkan Artificer! Bad-ass golem arm all the way.


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I would adore an archetype that is a Wand Master.

Not a caster specific one. An archetype or prestige that grants users some wand spepcial abilties. Maybe give them a pseduo casting where they can choose 1 cantrip + 1 spell or something to have in the wand and they can use it with some kind of scaling. Taking more into the prestige nets them more things to stick in their special wand.

Resulting in a limited pseudo caster, who has multiple abilities in one specific wand, and can eeek out more power out wands in general, but more so their specialty wand.

Keep it unrelated to the base class's magic ability. This way an Alchemist, or a fighter, or a rogue, or whoever can take the prestige/archetype and get some nice tools from it. It wouldn't be inherently that different from any magic class archetype.

Ah. Maybe take a note from the Artficer 3p from Adament entertainment. They won't get high spell access (Wands and all), nor do they get a lot of uses per day. But in exchange they have much broader spell list access.

Yeah. I would adore a prestige archetype wand centric class. That can alter their wand per day, get a basic cantrip + a few spells per day with it. But have open access to the traditions in exchange for the highly limited nature of it requiring an item, and getting considerably less spells than other spell casting ar chetypes.


Frogliacci wrote:
Archetypes for transforming into a different creature type, like 1e's corruptions, but without turning a character into an NPC. A good way of playing vampires, lycanthropes, liches, half-golems, etc.

This right here, or, honestly, the corruptions could be folded into the archetype/dedication system nicely. I'd love to see those, particularly a hive corruption that doesn't make me cry a little when I see it.


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Flumphmancer


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I want Vigilante back real bad as an Archetype, especially along with an Inquisitor class path for Cleric or Champion or Ranger.


I would like to see sorcerer diabolic and dmeonic bloodlines to be able to cast from arcane lsit as opposed to divine.


An iron golem/homonculus focused alchemist class path or archetype could be fun. I would also like an option for alchemist to get traps or maybe add new alchemicals items that act as traps.


After reading the archetypes from Last Omens on the AON site, my only request is that the next archetypes are less situational, none of them seem even remotely passable.


Not really an archetype, but Champion causes for LN and CN champions is something I've wanted since before Champion was the name of the class.

I'll second a request for archetypes that give constructed limbs. Constructed Pugilist, Jistkan Artificer, whatever else. Having a mechanical arm is pretty neat.

A beastmaster archetype that gives all characters access to a familiar or animal companion (either or both, I don't really care) and some wild empathy features would be neat.

Some ritual related archetypes would be nice. Some feats that make you better at rituals (+1 scaling to +2 bonus on ritual skill checks, able to perform with fewer secondary casters, or use a familiar as a secondary caster, or improve the competency of secondary casters, etc) and one feat that gives you access to a ritual explicitly. Probably best to make a good number of these skill feats and not class feats, except maybe a feat that gives you access to a ritual.

Grand Lodge

Now that King Kong is in the Bestiary, I want an Archetype that will eventually let me have King Kong as an animal companion. Go from ape to Gorilla, to Mighty Joe Young to King Kong. That would be cool!


Wicked Brew wrote:
I would like to see sorcerer diabolic and dmeonic bloodlines to be able to cast from arcane lsit as opposed to divine.

That wouldn't work well because all the fiend summoning spells and evil damage spells are in the divine list. In addition, those two bloodlines already provide bloodline spells from the arcane list, so you DO gain thematic arcane spells from fiendish descent.

Although I would like to see sorcerer feats that poach additional spells from other lists depending on bloodline. A lot of spells are thematically appropriate to sorcerers of certain bloodlines, but remain inaccessible due tradition. Draconic bloodline is the most egregious example. Gold and silver dragons favor divine spells over arcane spells, but sorcerers descended from them will get none of those abilities. Green dragons can also cast entangle, a primal spell that similarly isn't available to green dragon sorcerers.

Liberty's Edge

All Sorcerers can grab Crossblooded Evolution, which allows for one spell from another list. That helps a fair bit to allow specific additional spells.

But yes, something a bit more specific in that vein (like a specific selection of Divine spells for Gold or Silver dragons) might work.


Deadmanwalking wrote:

All Sorcerers can grab Crossblooded Evolution, which allows for one spell from another list. That helps a fair bit to allow specific additional spells.

But yes, something a bit more specific in that vein (like a specific selection of Divine spells for Gold or Silver dragons) might work.

Crossblooded gives you a single extra spell known, and you can't even take that feat more than once. I'm thinking more a feat that allows you to choose from a pool of spells belonging to a different tradition as part of your normal spell repertoire increase.


Zwordsman wrote:


I'd love an archetype all about the Aid Action. Giving boosts, or other ways to use it. Such as allowing you to boost AC with an aid action. Along with Bodyguard sort of style. and such.

I'd like this too, but hopefully not until we get a more clear definition of how Aid works as a reaction, and interacts with the various kinds of "prepare" actions that might work with it.

I'd also like to see deity specific archetypes that help any character more effective at using the weapons or fighting style of the god, similar to the sentinel prestige classes.


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Oh, I want the final Grey Maiden, please.

Sczarni

I think an archetype that turns you into a golemn, or a lich, etc are pretty cool ideas.


The Bard Sandman archetype from PF1, but something a little more versatile so that I can make the original Spellthief Class from 3.5 which was a lot of fun.

The new system has a LOT of room for it to work with Focus powers and almost every ability having a level associated with it.


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Dragon Disciple, I always loved that class.

Mystic Theurge, no idea what they would do to make it work and either not break the magic system or make it worthless archetype, but I can hope.

Shadow Lodge

Putting the thief back into the rogue as part of the base class assumption really bothered me. I want to be able to play a rogue without "you're a criminal" as a class feature. Some archetypes for rogue to remove that would be welcome.

Vexing dodger was my favorite Pf1 archetype, because climbing on people as a fighting style for small characters is awesome.


gnoams wrote:

Putting the thief back into the rogue as part of the base class assumption really bothered me. I want to be able to play a rogue without "you're a criminal" as a class feature. Some archetypes for rogue to remove that would be welcome.

Vexing dodger was my favorite Pf1 archetype, because climbing on people as a fighting style for small characters is awesome.

Well, to be fair, the Class is literally called Rogue, which is sort of by definition a criminal.

There are also three other options besides Thief to choose from (and that’s just the paths available in the first book). Presumably others would come.

Shadow Lodge

Midnightoker wrote:
gnoams wrote:

Putting the thief back into the rogue as part of the base class assumption really bothered me. I want to be able to play a rogue without "you're a criminal" as a class feature. Some archetypes for rogue to remove that would be welcome.

Vexing dodger was my favorite Pf1 archetype, because climbing on people as a fighting style for small characters is awesome.

Well, to be fair, the Class is literally called Rogue, which is sort of by definition a criminal.

There are also three other options besides Thief to choose from (and that’s just the paths available in the first book). Presumably others would come.

"As you started on the path of the rogue, you began to develop your own style to pursue your illicit activities." The three choices are described as pick pocket, con artist, and bandit.

The rogue class could potentially be used to play a skilled character that is not a criminal, but currently you would have to ignore class features that are contrary to that concept.

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