House rule: A free archetype for all.


Homebrew and House Rules


So now that the LOWG is out, we get a sense of what archetypes are going to be like. Since the APG has 60 pages of them, these things are going to be everywhere, and many of them will be very attractive.

What's less attractive is the actual dedication feat for the archetype, which generally feels like a much less exciting boost than the other feats you could select at 2nd level, but you feel obligated to take them because the later feats in the archetype are generally exciting. This can feel like a tax, and feat taxes are not fun.

So to resolve the issue of "dedications are feat taxes" I'm considering the following variant:

All characters receive a bonus feat at 2nd level which can only be used to select a level 2 dedication without the multiclass tag. If a specific dedication has a requirement you haven't yet met, you can choose to use this feat later.

The actual meaty feats in the archetype are going to need to be purchased with class feats, but they are generally comparable to class feats anyway. I'm inclined to leave multiclass feats out of this because I don't want to completely obsolete the ancient elf before it's even printed, but that might change.

Is this potentially a problem? Or is this not going far enough. Thoughts and concerns are welcome.


The last part on "choose this feat later" is a little odd. Do you mean it suddenly comes online at what ever level you pick up the general feats?

As a house rule I can't see a problem because it is applied to everyone
It is not different from the variant posted here about extra class feats every x levels (WatersLethe?)

Perks of a modular system


What I meant it for was something like "if you need to physically get to Jalmeray, or find a sphinx, or something then it's okay if you can't manage that yet." So as a GM I don't need to find a way to ping pong people all over the map to fulfill their character concepts.

This will probably be less of an issue once we get some non-region based archetypes.


Why not give it out for free at 1st?

Then you could write Fighter / Hellknight 1 on your character sheet and be technically correct.

(And a level 1 character with Expert in Intimidation would not be game breaking)


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Of potential note, this would put a strong additional cost to someone interested in taking a multi-class archetype. Doing so would invalidate their ability to use this free second level feat until a much later level, after their free archetype is resolved/paid up. Is it worthwhile encouraging flavor from a non-multiclass standpoint, worth making multiclass character concepts hit by the opportunity cost this creates?

@rainzax, I assume they left it at 2nd level since the developers explicitly made them 2nd level feats. While it might be easy to say that having expert at a skill at first level gives a boost to variance for 1st level characters, I can't say with as little experience as I have in actual play, that expert at some skill at 1st level might not actually skew a few things.

Certainly, since we are talking home-brew, assuming the enhanced range someone can start at is a bonus to the idea of the campaign, then I don't think it would be horrible. It might do some weird things, enabling expert skill feats that might not have been meant to be enabled so soon. But might be an interesting flavor.


PossibleCabbage wrote:

So now that the LOWG is out, we get a sense of what archetypes are going to be like. Since the APG has 60 pages of them, these things are going to be everywhere, and many of them will be very attractive.

What's less attractive is the actual dedication feat for the archetype, which generally feels like a much less exciting boost than the other feats you could select at 2nd level, but you feel obligated to take them because the later feats in the archetype are generally exciting. This can feel like a tax, and feat taxes are not fun.

So to resolve the issue of "dedications are feat taxes" I'm considering the following variant:

All characters receive a bonus feat at 2nd level which can only be used to select a level 2 dedication without the multiclass tag. If a specific dedication has a requirement you haven't yet met, you can choose to use this feat later.

The actual meaty feats in the archetype are going to need to be purchased with class feats, but they are generally comparable to class feats anyway. I'm inclined to leave multiclass feats out of this because I don't want to completely obsolete the ancient elf before it's even printed, but that might change.

Is this potentially a problem? Or is this not going far enough. Thoughts and concerns are welcome.

I can maybe remedy some other peoples' objections.

How about you just add a general feat that grants you a dedication feat (that you can only take once) and then give everyone an additional general feat at level 2? I think that would give a benefit to everyone even if they didn't want to do an archetype and the retraining rules would cover those who see an opportunity to take an archetype dedication feat down the line.


rainzax wrote:

Why not give it out for free at 1st?

Then you could write Fighter / Hellknight 1 on your character sheet and be technically correct.

(And a level 1 character with Expert in Intimidation would not be game breaking)

Well, I thought of that but what broke the tie is that it's weird to get a feat 2 at level 1. But "choose the thing" at level 1, then get it when it would start working is fine.

But I'm not sure how to balance "let people multiclass this way" (which sort of obsoletes the ancient elf (which I'm okay with but it might be well suited with a character concept), but Excaliburproxy's solution is pretty slick.

Plus giving everyone a bonus general feat at 2 solves the problem of "non-humans are strongly discouraged from taking an advanced weapon archetype if they're not fighters."

Sovereign Court

Excaliburproxy wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:

So now that the LOWG is out, we get a sense of what archetypes are going to be like. Since the APG has 60 pages of them, these things are going to be everywhere, and many of them will be very attractive.

What's less attractive is the actual dedication feat for the archetype, which generally feels like a much less exciting boost than the other feats you could select at 2nd level, but you feel obligated to take them because the later feats in the archetype are generally exciting. This can feel like a tax, and feat taxes are not fun.

So to resolve the issue of "dedications are feat taxes" I'm considering the following variant:

All characters receive a bonus feat at 2nd level which can only be used to select a level 2 dedication without the multiclass tag. If a specific dedication has a requirement you haven't yet met, you can choose to use this feat later.

The actual meaty feats in the archetype are going to need to be purchased with class feats, but they are generally comparable to class feats anyway. I'm inclined to leave multiclass feats out of this because I don't want to completely obsolete the ancient elf before it's even printed, but that might change.

Is this potentially a problem? Or is this not going far enough. Thoughts and concerns are welcome.

I can maybe remedy some other peoples' objections.

How about you just add a general feat that grants you a dedication feat (that you can only take once) and then give everyone an additional general feat at level 2? I think that would give a benefit to everyone even if they didn't want to do an archetype and the retraining rules would cover those who see an opportunity to take an archetype dedication feat down the line.

How does this look?

Feat
All characters get a free General feat at level 2.

Multiclass Archetype Dedication (General feat Level 2): This feat may only be taken once per character as a General Feat. After the initial Dedication is taken this way, you may buy further Archetype feats as you increase in levels by using either your Class feats or your General feats of the appropriate level or lower.

Sovereign Court

So I originally did as I said above and gave a free General feat at level 2, but I eventually thought about it and changed my mind. While I do give a General feat to get Multiclass Archetype Dedication, characters don't get a free Level 2 General feat to take it, they can spend their regular level 3 General feat if they want. If they can't wait 1 level, they can buy it with their class feat like usual, but buying it as a General feat lets them use either general feats or class feats to buy the further feats, while if you buy the initial feat as a class feat then all further feats must also be bought with class feats. Basically, You can only get 2 Multiclass Archetype Dedications in my game: One through a General feat and 1 through a Class feat. The one bought through the General feat can be advanced with either General or Class feats, but the other one is restricted to only Class feats. This limitation (along with the requirement to have at least 2 more feats in your first multiclass before getting another) is to prevent "I'm a Wizard/Rogue/Fighter/Cleric/Bard" type characters.


Letting people buy (non-dedication) archetype feats with general feats sounds extremely powerful, since I would basically always do that. After all, there's minimal loss in taking your archetype at 3rd level instead of 2nd because normally the problem with "late archetypes" is that you're forced to take, for example, a Feat 4 in a 6th level class feat slot.

Sovereign Court

PossibleCabbage wrote:
Letting people buy (non-dedication) archetype feats with general feats sounds extremely powerful, since I would basically always do that. After all, there's minimal loss in taking your archetype at 3rd level instead of 2nd because normally the problem with "late archetypes" is that you're forced to take, for example, a Feat 4 in a 6th level class feat slot.

Thanks, that's good point. It helps to have a second set of eyes to go over these things. So the Dedication can be General then, but further feats are Class feats only.

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