dragon claw + powerful fist


Rules Discussion


I would like to understand if there is a specific rule or if it is left to the master to solve problems such as the damage of dragon claws and powerful fist.

how should you handle it if a sorcerer with dragon claws multiclass to monk and takes a powerful fist?

1. best value 1d6 + extra 1d6 bludgeoning or slashing doesn't matter
2. bludgeoning 1d6 + extra 1d6 or slashing 1d4 + extra 1d6
3. bludgeoning 1d6 or slashing 1d4 + extra 1d6


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I reckon if they took Tiger Stance they should get the best of both worlds since your unarmed strikes deal slashing either way. Not sure beyond that.


I'm not sure what's being referenced here. Doesn't Powerful Fist only effect Fist attacks, or am I misremembering? And doesn't Dragon Claws only apply the bonus elemental damage to your dragon claw attacks? It'd be CRAZY broken for Monks to MC Sorcerer if you could apply it to other attacks.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

yeah, i don't think powerful fists does anything to anything other than the default unarmored attack everyone has.


I could be wrong, but if I recall, Powerful Fists boosts the base unarmed attack which is 1d4 non-lethal for everyone. It's not a die size increase to unarmed attacks, so it wouldn't affect unarmed attacked with specific weapon die such as stance attacks or dragon claws or animal instinct, and so on.


There is no interaction between Powerful Fist and Dragon Claws at all. #3 is correct; you can choose between doing a 1d6 Bludgeoning attack with your fist, or you can choose to do a 1d4 Slashing + 1d6 [Element] attack with your claw.


yeah it's probably 3, although surely the sentence where it says "They are finesse unarmed attacks" makes me assume that this attack is both finesse and unarmed as a Tag. But indeed Powerful Fist does not say that it has an effect on the unarmed but only that the fist is 1d6, but the problem of the elemental effect is a bit strange to define.
Not that in any case 1d4 or 1d6 has all this difference if the master grants it.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Unarmed is a category of weapon (ish, unarmed attacks aren't actually weapons).

Fist is a specific type of attack within the Unarmed category. Powerful Fist specifically effects the Fist attack and doesn't provide any benefit to other types of unarmed attack.

So yes, while dragon claws are unarmed, they aren't Fists. In the same way that scimitar and rapier are both swords, but something that gave +1 damage when using a rapier wouldn't give you that bonus with a scimitar.


Squiggit wrote:
Fist is a specific type of attack within the Unarmed category. Powerful Fist specifically effects the Fist attack and doesn't provide any benefit to other types of unarmed attack.

That's not entirely true. Powerful Fist increases damage for fist attacks only, but it also lets you make lethal unarmed attacks without taking the usual -2 penalty. That second benefit explicitly applies to all unarmed attacks. Dragon Claws don't benefit from this because they already deal lethal damage, but attacks like kicks would gain that benefit.

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