Formula requirement for crafting scrolls


Rules Discussion


Really loving the new edition. Just question regarding crafting scrolls though.

If I'm reading it right, to craft scrolls, you need a separate formula for each type of spell?

ie. To craft a scroll of magic missile and a scroll of color spray, I need a 2 different formulas, one each for a magic missile scroll and color spray.

Is that correct? Any links or quotes of the rules to support or deny this is appreciated. Thanks!


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I had some questions about scroll crafting too, so glad to see I'm not the only one. Just my thoughts on this, as another person a little confused:

First, I see nothing in the scroll description that indicates a single scroll can contain multiple spells. On p. 564, it says "The spell on a scroll can be cast only once, and the scroll is destroyed as part of the casting." As a GM, I might allow a scroll with multiple spells, where the writing vanishes as the spells are cast ... but that's not how I read the RAW.

Second, the cost structure or Crafting rules don't support this. Presumably such a scroll containing two first-level spells would cost 8 gp apiece (the cost of 2 first level scrolls), but that isn't spelled out anywhere that I can find. The "batch of 4" rule on consumables with the 4-day prep time seems to be circumvented here. Instead of crafting a single set of 4 identical spell scrolls in 4 days, I could craft a single set of 4 scrolls that contain a total of 8 spells. And since there's no inherent limit, I could craft a couple of dozen spells worth of scrolls in 4 days of crafting. While it might be prohibited by cost, it wouldn't be prohibited by the rules, and I definitely think the intention was to limit this.

Third, I am not 100% sure that formulas are needed for scrolls. (This was my question.) There is a specific "Crafting a Scroll" section on p. 565, and this isn't included in most other items. This section doesn't mention needing a formula at all, only needing to be able to cast the spell. My instinct is that knowledge of the spell itself *is* the formula in the case of spell scrolls (and maybe of basic magic wands, as well), as opposed to other more elaborate magical items. But I also can't find anything that says they *don't* need a formula, and the Crafting directions definitely indicate a formula must be used.

Finally, I think it's odd that you must use Crafting for a spell scroll, and that there isn't an Arcana action that allows for this. This is more of just an observation ... I don't think there's any way to read the rules that would justify using Arcana, other than thematically.


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azjauthor wrote:
First, I see nothing in the scroll description that indicates a single scroll can contain multiple spells. On p. 564, it says "The spell on a scroll can be cast only once, and the scroll is destroyed as part of the casting." As a GM, I might allow a scroll with multiple spells, where the writing vanishes as the spells are cast ... but that's not how I read the RAW.

Under PF2 RAW you absolutely cannot have multiple spells per scroll. The very first line under Scrolls on page 564 defines them as "A scroll contains a single spell that you can cast without having to expend a spell slot."

Liberty's Edge

The same thing goes for spells of differing levels and Wands as well.

You need a Formula for a Scroll of Heal (Level 1), Scroll of Heal (Level 2), Scroll of Heal (Level 3) etc...

Same thing for EVERY kind of item that is made of different Special Materials so a general-purpose Crafting Book won't do you any good if you're trying to craft Cold Iron Daggers, you need a special Formula for that, in fact you even need different Formulas for every different type of Special Material grade so your Low-Grade Cold Iron Dagger Formula is useless once you want to make some Standard-Grade Cold Iron Daggers and you'll have to pay for a brand new Formula when you want to start making them.

They went way overboard on punishing crafters IMO and Formulas should have stayed in the domain of Uncommon+ equipment and Infused Alchemical Items only in my opinion.


So, lets say I want to make low-grade cold iron weapons. Do I just need the formula for low grade weapons and apply it to the basic formula I have for long sword, or dagger, or hammer, etc...; or do I need a formula for cold iron daggers, long swords, etc....?

Also, if my player has chosen blacksmith, and magical crafting - can he craft runes?

Also, also, (I have questions), My player is just a fighter. Can he even take the magical crafting feat. It doesn't seem to prevent it, but how then would he supply any spells needed? Can he have them cast for him when needed?


Mordine wrote:

So, lets say I want to make low-grade cold iron weapons. Do I just need the formula for low grade weapons and apply it to the basic formula I have for long sword, or dagger, or hammer, etc...; or do I need a formula for cold iron daggers, long swords, etc....?

Also, if my player has chosen blacksmith, and magical crafting - can he craft runes?

Also, also, (I have questions), My player is just a fighter. Can he even take the magical crafting feat. It doesn't seem to prevent it, but how then would he supply any spells needed? Can he have them cast for him when needed?

I'm not sure about the official answer on whether you need a formula for "low-grade adamantine dagger" and one for "low-grade adamantine longsword" or just the formula for "low-grade adamantine" and the formula for the weapon type... seems really unclear to me, but then so does whether you need a formula for each specific spell or just for the level of spell.

HoweverIi can say for certain that if you can qualify for the magical crafting feat you can craft runes - so long as they don't have other requirements listed that you don't meet.

And the crafter doesn't have to be the one to supply spells when they are required for crafting something, any caster of the spell can.


thenobledrake wrote:
Mordine wrote:

So, lets say I want to make low-grade cold iron weapons. Do I just need the formula for low grade weapons and apply it to the basic formula I have for long sword, or dagger, or hammer, etc...; or do I need a formula for cold iron daggers, long swords, etc....?

Also, if my player has chosen blacksmith, and magical crafting - can he craft runes?

Also, also, (I have questions), My player is just a fighter. Can he even take the magical crafting feat. It doesn't seem to prevent it, but how then would he supply any spells needed? Can he have them cast for him when needed?

I'm not sure about the official answer on whether you need a formula for "low-grade adamantine dagger" and one for "low-grade adamantine longsword" or just the formula for "low-grade adamantine" and the formula for the weapon type... seems really unclear to me, but then so does whether you need a formula for each specific spell or just for the level of spell.

HoweverIi can say for certain that if you can qualify for the magical crafting feat you can craft runes - so long as they don't have other requirements listed that you don't meet.

And the crafter doesn't have to be the one to supply spells when they are required for crafting something, any caster of the spell can.

Thanks for parts 2&3, I was hoping that was the answer, but wanted a little clarification. The first part seems reasonable to me that you could stack the formulas. One shows you how to make a dagger, the other instructs how to deal with the special material...


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This question has been asked before. Sadly, we currently have no guidance on any specificities of scrolls or wands compared to other magic items, and it would appear that by the RAW you need a separate formula not only for each spell, but for each spell at each heightened spell level, should you wish to create scrolls or wands of heightened spells.

Personally, I think scrolls should be an exception to the formula rule. A scroll should be its own formula, or perhaps just have one formula for scrolls of each magical tradition (arcane, occult, etc). Or not require formulae at all for scrolls.

But we'll have to wait for errata or new info from a future book for that. Currently, it's one formula for each level of each spell.


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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I'd rule that wizards with the scroll savant feat know the scroll formula for any spell in their book.


magi210 wrote:
I'd rule that wizards with the scroll savant feat know the scroll formula for any spell in their book.

I could even see needing a formula for each level of spell, but then you supply any spell you want.

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