Please let me know if I understand this correctly or not.
A wizard who wants to heighten a spell must know it at the higher level first.
For example, if I take fireball as a 5th-level wizard, I can prepare it as a 3rd-level spell, and only ever as a 3rd-level spell.
After several adventures, my wizard is now 14th-level, and comes across a tome that grants him access to fireball as a 7th-level spell. Having learned the 7th-level fireball, he can now cast it either as 3rd-level spell or a 7th-level spell (provided he prepares it in the appropriate slot).
Essentially, heightened spells are treated as different spells for the purposes of learning them, spellbook space, etc.
Is that right?
If it's right, then playing a wizard seems especially hard. If I'm wrong, and wizards merely have to prepare their spells in higher slots to heighten them (without having to learn them at the various levels first), then it seems there is very little mechanical point to ever playing an arcane sorcerer.
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No.
Prepared casters can prepare any spell they know in any slot.
It's because that would be ridiculously powerful for spontaneous casters to do on the fly with every spell they know that spontaneous casters have to differentiate what level they know what spells at (other than Signature Spells).
No.
Prepared casters can prepare any spell they know in any slot.
It's because that would be ridiculously powerful for spontaneous casters to do on the fly with every spell they know that spontaneous casters have to differentiate what level they know what spells at (other than Signature Spells).
Is there a rule that clearly states this?
The only rules I've been able to find seem to indicate that you can't heighten something unless something specifically enables you to do so. (Or you happen to know the spell at the higher level, such as with clerics and druids, who appear to know all their spells at all levels.)
Heightening Spells
When you get spell slots of 2nd level and higher, you can fill those slots with stronger versions of lower-level spells. This increases the spell’s level, heightening it to match the spell slot. Many spells have specific improvements when they are heightened to certain levels.
On the class features of prepared casters.
It's under Heightened spells. Right off the bat.
"A prepared spellcaster can heighten a spell by preparing it in a higher-level slot than its normal spell level,..."
Then the rules spin off into all the difficulties spontaneous casters have. Those rules don't apply to prepared casters, nor do the rules ever suggest there's more a prepared caster needs to do. You're adding something to Wizards that's not there, likely due to mixing the rules or thinking that statement seemed too brief, but really that's it.
There's neither further clarification nor limitations because it's that straightforward.
(And the difference between Heightening for the two casting styles was the cause of much debate and consternation in the playtest.)
But where does it say wizards have stronger versions of lower level spells to put in those slots?
I get what you're saying, it just doesn't seem like there's enough written to support it firmly.
Also, if that's the case, aren't arcane sorcerers totally getting the short end of the stick compared to wizards?
Furthermore, how is it overpowered for a sorcerer to heighten all their spells, but not for literally anyone else to do so? It seems to me that, that level of spontaneity would be one of the only major draws of the sorcerer.
It's bad enough that, depending on your GM's interpretation, casters can't even place low level spells into higher level slots without heightening them first.
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But where does it say wizards have stronger versions of lower level spells to put in those slots?
I mean, right there. Wizards can prepare spells in higher level slots to heighten them is the rule.
I get what you're saying, it just doesn't seem like there's enough written to support it firmly.
I don't see how. The text says that a prepared spellcaster can prepare a spell in a higher level slot to heighten it. There's no way to read that in such a way as to say the exact opposite of that as far as I can tell.
Also, if that's the case, aren't arcane sorcerers totally getting the short end of the stick compared to wizards?
Yep, but Paizo seems to believe that the general advantage of being able to cast known spells spontaneously makes up for the disadvantage of restricted heightening.
Also that spontaneous heightening was apparently too complicated for people to manage.
I guess I've got turned around 'cause I read the sorcerer class first, then the wizard. I'm still not wholly convinced of it, but it does seem like everyone agrees with your interpretation (the lopsidedness I'm seeing is in itself pretty compelling).
I'm just not seeing what is spontaneous about spontaneous casting under that interpretation though.
Can a sorcerer even cast a 3rd-level fireball in a 4th-level slot without signature spell and without knowing it as a 4th-level spell if they were desperate enough? If not, then there's really not much that's spontaneous about their casting at all.
Why would anyone ever play an arcane sorcerer over a wizard? Seems like they're just being given table scraps.
Focus spells, not having to prepare a ton of spells every adventuring day and Crossblooded Evolutions are very good reasons to play a Sorcerer instead of a Wizard.
I'm just not seeing what is spontaneous about spontaneous casting under that interpretation though.
Well, the core casting mechanic still is, obviously. If the wizard prepares burning hands three times in three spell slots that's all they can cast, while the sorcerer can choose to cast grease instead... unless the wizard takes the thesis that lets them switch prepared slots around.
Can a sorcerer even cast a 3rd-level fireball in a 4th-level slot without signature spell and without knowing it as a 4th-level spell if they were desperate enough?
I don't think so.
If not, then there's really not much that's spontaneous about their casting at all.
If you really wanna see nonspontaneous spontaneous casting, look at Sorcerer multiclass: one spell slot with one spell known per level and they can never spontaneously heighten anything.
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Focus spells, not having to prepare a ton of spells every adventuring day and Crossblooded Evolutions are very good reasons to play a Sorcerer instead of a Wizard.
Last I checked, having the ability to "prepare a ton of spells" is a boon, not a drawback. Wizards also get their own focus spells, from their School.
Crossblooded evolutions? What's that?
I'm just not seeing what is spontaneous about spontaneous casting under that interpretation though.Well, the core casting mechanic still is, obviously. If the wizard prepares burning hands three times in three spell slots that's all they can cast, while the sorcerer can choose to cast grease instead... unless the wizard takes the thesis that lets them switch prepared slots around.
Can a sorcerer even cast a 3rd-level fireball in a 4th-level slot without signature spell and without knowing it as a 4th-level spell if they were desperate enough?I don't think so.
If not, then there's really not much that's spontaneous about their casting at all.
Taken together, there's not much that's spontaneous about that.
If you really wanna see nonspontaneous spontaneous casting, look at Sorcerer multiclass: one spell slot with one spell known per level and they can never spontaneously heighten anything.
Oof! That hurts!
What, did Paizo actually believe sorcerers were broken and needed this level of nerfing???
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Why would anyone ever play an arcane sorcerer over a wizard? Seems like they're just being given table scraps.Not being locked-in to what spells you can cast with each of your spell slots is worth a lot more than most people theorycrafting about the differences between wizards and arcane sorcerers give it credit for.
I've played quite a few sorcerers and wizards. I think my ability to measure them is just fine.
Sorcerers get a better spellcasting stat than Wizards (though Recall Knowledge being a basic action slapped on so many things makes Intelligence still a real fun to use), so while you might have less varied spell selection, it is much easier to expand both your combat arsenal (intimidation, athletics stuff with a whip if you go Dex for AC) and out-of-combat prowess (all the fun Charisma skills are yours to take).
Unless you REALLY want to play a face character, Charisma is not better than intelligence (and let's face it, very few GMs will stop your from roleplaying just because your character has a low Charisma). The fact that Intelligence boosts more skills than does Charisma, grants more skills in the first place, and also increases your languages and other things makes it plainly obvious that Intelligence is the better stat.
You're right about Signature Spell being good and versatile, but it's not better than another casters being able to heighten whatever they want.
Spontaneously heightening is a pretty big deal in PF2. Much more than it was in PF1.
A sorcerer can have dispel magic always at the exact level he needs it. That's usually gonna be one level higher than the target spell for near-automatic success or one level below the target effect for a roughly 50% chance to counteract. Casting dispel magic at any other level does either nothing at all or wastes a higher slot than needed and a wizard is not guaranteed to have the desired level prepared.
The spell swap thesis costs time and prevents you from getting another thesis you might want. I'm personally inclined to say spell blending is probably my favorite thesis overall, so I'd never even have the option to swap any spells on the fly.
if you want to throw buckets of damage at your foes, less total slots but more of the highest caliber ones will help you burst better.
It's also better for disabling enemies due to the Incapacitation trait on many disbling spells.