Is Charisma optional for Champions?


Advice


I was coming up with a character who was a Shelynite Dwarf who had devoted himself towards crafting by attempting to create extremely well-made things which are nonetheless jaw-droppingly beautiful. While a valid concept, the stats are pulling you a bunch of different ways- you need Str to hit, Int for crafting, Wis & Con to stay in the fight, and you're supposed to have Charisma because you're a Champion. With an already Cha deficient Dwarf, I was thinking "would this be better as a fighter?" but then started to wonder what exactly do I need Charisma for?

As best I can tell, aside from the skills everyone uses Charisma for, you use it for DCs for focus spells (which you can avoid taking), and your divine smite at level 9, and not a lot else.

So is Str 18, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 8 a viable stat line for a Champion? If I don't bother increasing charisma much, I won't ever get anything out of smite, but that's the only real loss I can think of.


Charisma is entirely optional, yes. I love it. That stat array looks fine to me.


Yes it can be optional, like you wrote it only lose the Divine Smite persistent damage as class feature.

Paizo Employee Designer

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For automatic features you can't avoid taking, it's just divine smite, offensive lay on hands, and if like a rakshasa (could be anyone but in my game it has usually been a rakshasa) wants to counterspell your LoH it will pretty much just work. And that's it!


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lordcirth wrote:
Charisma is entirely optional, yes. I love it. That stat array looks fine to me.

I also love this. You get the same flexibility with monks, too, in that, even if you go ki monk, the only abilities you need any Wis for at all right now are Ki Blast and Quivering Palm, and you can easily build a super fun character without either.


You could boost Str, Con, Wis, Cha at 5th & 10th to get Cha to 12 if you really want Smite damage only one level late.
But do you?

Yes.
It may not seem worth it for 1 point of damage, but it triggers a Weakness to Good which can be really significant. In the playtest, my Cha 12 Dwarf Paladin did hundreds of extra h.p. damage from persistent Good damage for 1 pt.! Even though persistent isn't as sticky, it's still sweet.


Perpdepog wrote:
lordcirth wrote:
Charisma is entirely optional, yes. I love it. That stat array looks fine to me.
I also love this. You get the same flexibility with monks, too, in that, even if you go ki monk, the only abilities you need any Wis for at all right now are Ki Blast and Quivering Palm, and you can easily build a super fun character without either.

I believe you also need Wis for Wholeness of Body's option to counteract a poison or disease.


Leave Cha at 8, get good at crafting, make your own darn Circlet of Persuasion at level 17. Finally, people will listen to what you have to say.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Perpdepog wrote:
lordcirth wrote:
Charisma is entirely optional, yes. I love it. That stat array looks fine to me.
I also love this. You get the same flexibility with monks, too, in that, even if you go ki monk, the only abilities you need any Wis for at all right now are Ki Blast and Quivering Palm, and you can easily build a super fun character without either.
I believe you also need Wis for Wholeness of Body's option to counteract a poison or disease.

Op, you're right. Still, you could roll without Wis pretty effectively.

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