Is Crossblooded Sorcerer worth it if I want to cast both healing spells (Unicorn bloodline) and lightning spells (Stormborn)?


Advice


Just as the title suggests. While I'm still working out the kinks for my shaman with the Lore Spirit...I'd like an option just in case it doesn't work out.


Unicorn is...OK as a healer, not great, and stormborn isn't one of the bloodlines which give a bonus to damage. I don't think you can take a bloodline mutation with crossblooded. As such crossblooded sorcerer isn't going to be better than the other means of combining lightning and healing, and given the significant disadvantages of the archetype I'd look at those other means unless my concept required the unicorn bloodline or something.

Other means include theologian cleric, druid, or if you're starting at a high level a witch with the spring patron or a wyrmwitch with a primal dragon patron. Maybe a Magaambyan initiate arcanist. Or just a unicorn bloodline sorcerer who picks some lightning spells without going crossblooded, perhaps with a bloodline mutation or two to make those more effective.


Stormborn isn't a mutation that I'm aware of, Avr. Unless we're talking about a different bloodline. But I could just do that.

Other question in relation, would taking White Mage archetype arcanist still allow me to take School Understanding exploit so I could get admixture school from evocation or not?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

No; the loss of spells known is absolutely crippling and not worthwhile. If you want to have access to the healing spells and still do some blasting, just take Blood Havoc as a Unicorn Sorcerer; you won't be a specialized blaster without taking the appropriate bloodline, but you'll still be decent.

avr wrote:
I don't think you can take a bloodline mutation with crossblooded.

Crossblooded Sorcerers can only take bloodline mutations in the place of bloodline feats, so it is substantially delayed but you can get all three of them.

Thomas Seitz wrote:
Stormborn isn't a mutation that I'm aware of, Avr. Unless we're talking about a different bloodline. But I could just do that.

avr is presuming (and I am, for that matter) that if you're taking the Stormborn bloodline you intend to use blasting spells of the lightning or sonic damage type. Ordinarily you would use the Blood Havoc bloodline mutation in this case, which allows you to trade away your 1st level bloodline power in exchange to deal +1 damage per damage die rolled. However, bloodline mutations cannot be swapped out in this manner if an archetype has modified your bloodline... which crossblooded does.

Thomas Seitz wrote:
Other question in relation, would taking White Mage archetype arcanist still allow me to take School Understanding exploit so I could get admixture school from evocation or not?

The White Mage is eligible for the School Understanding exploit just like any other Arcanist, and Admixture is a valid choice. So yes, you could do this.


Cool. Okay that seals it then I'll do arcanist White Mage and go with Admixture so I can start turning all my damage spells into different energies.

Also thank you for clarifying all of it. I hadn't considered blood havoc...mostly because it's not a feat I think of when doing sorcerer.

Silver Crusade

If you want healing and lightening, have you considered playing a druid? You can get some healing spells, and many of the lightning based damage spells.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Thomas Seitz wrote:
Also thank you for clarifying all of it. I hadn't considered blood havoc...mostly because it's not a feat I think of when doing sorcerer.

Blood Havoc is mostly associated with specialized blasting builds, but it's just as good for builds that are only doing casual blasting. It's a really low-cost way to mix a little firepower into a build that normally wouldn't have it, for instance a Unicorn Sorcerer who wants to occasionally huck fireballs. Take Spell Focus (Evocation), trade away the useless Safekeeping power for blood havoc, learn one or two blasting spells, and you've just made blasting into a solid option without interfering with the rest of your build. Arcanists and Wizards need to invest pretty heavily in exploits and feats to match what Sorcerers can do with just this one option.

Dark Archive

Crossblooded has become a bit of a dirty word on these forums, so you're going to get a ton of people who will act like it's the worst possible choice you could ever make as a sorcerer.

When in reality its actually a very good archetype, one of my favorites in fact, assuming you understand what you are getting yourself into and are ok with it, or know how to mitigate it.

Obviously, Crossblooded's glaring problem is that you get 1 less spell known per spell level. On the surface this hurts, especially when you realize that everytime a sorcerer gets a brand new spell level, he only gets one spell known at that level. Which means a crossblooded gets 0 at that level.

Additionally Crossblooded sorcerer's can't trade out powers for blood mutations, in particular the fan favorite, Blood Havoc.

These things hurt. But there are ways to mitigate them.

1) Be human. Humans favored class bonus lets them add one spell known per sorcerer level they have, of a level one lower than their highest level spell they can cast. This helps a TON and almost completely mitigates the problem entirely. The thing this doesn't help with is the fact that you are 1 level behind normal sorcerers in terms of access to higher level spells.

2) Metamagic. Particularly things like Intensify and Empower. You might not get to have any spells known at a new spells level, but you still get the spell slots of that level. Use them for casting metamagic'd spells. Sucks that you don't get new toys as quickly, but at least you aren't wasting anything.

3) People like to say that Crossblooded can't get Blood Havoc. That's simply not true. A sorcerer is also able to trade out a bloodline feat for a blood mutations like Blood Havoc. You get your first bloodline feat at 7th, but honestly that's not terrible

Crossblooded are not the garbage that people on these forums would like to make you think. You will have fewer options than a normal sorcerer, true. But given that you have two sets of bloodline powers to choose from, BOTH bloodline arcanas (many of these are incredible), and can create some fantastic combos by mixing these, the crossblooded archetype is probably the best choice for a more focused sorcerer build. And let's face it, if you aren't trying to make a focused caster, just be a wizard instead.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
That Crazy Alchemist wrote:


1) Be human. Humans favored class bonus lets them add one spell known per sorcerer level they have, of a level one lower than their highest level spell they can cast. This helps a TON and almost completely mitigates the problem entirely. The thing this doesn't help with is the fact that you are 1 level behind normal sorcerers in terms of access to higher level spells.

This doesn't actually help you catch up, since this FCB is so powerful that it's effectively become the default. It's not that humans are ahead, it's that non-humans are behind, because human sorcerer has become the gold standard for sorcerers. If we were to have a serious conversation on the merits of Wizard vs Sorcerer vs Arcanist, I would be presuming the human sorcerer favored class bonus is in play in that discussion.

At my table I've gone so far as to houserule it's available to all races, because it was annoying that non-human races were inherently poor Sorcerers due to missing out on this game-changing bonus.

That Crazy Alchemist wrote:
Crossblooded are not the garbage that people on these forums would like to make you think. You will have fewer options than a normal sorcerer, true. But given that you have two sets of bloodline powers, BOTH bloodline arcanas (many of these are incredible), and can create some fantastic combos by mixing these, the crossblooded archetype is probably the best choice for a more focused sorcerer build. And let's face it, if you aren't trying to make a focused caster, just be a wizard instead.

There are some powerful arcana combos that can make crossblooded work, but you're still going to be a hyper-specialized one-trick-pony build. What it's not good at is diversifying; crossblooded only shines if you're stacking two arcanas onto the same kind of spell, and if you're just selecting two diverse options you'll lose far more in spell options than you gain.

Also, Sorcerers make perfectly fine focused casters, and with the human FCB can have an extremely well-rounded list of spells at their finger-tips. You won't know every spell, but you'll always have something appropriate to the situation. Their progression disadvantage over the Wizard does hurt them at low levels, but they grow out of it and flourish. Their ability to spam the same spell spontaneously gives them options that Wizards cannot really duplicate, and they get far more spells at their fingertips than the arcanist. Yes, arcanists can quick study, but if you're just swapping between the same set of staple spells you're just paying daily resources and action economy to imitate a sorcerer poorly. A Sorcerer with human FCB and a good spell selection has just enough variety to have something for every occasion, and while I would concur that the Wizard is the better class overall due to its progression advantage the Sorcerer is still a superb caster option with its own unique playstyle and advantages.

Grand Lodge

That Crazy Alchemist wrote:
Crossblooded has become a bit of a dirty word on these forums, so you're going to get a ton of people who will act like it's the worst possible choice you could ever make as a sorcerer.

Just reacting to that point, there's that, and another slice of the players would sling mud to the archetype for other reasons*

But on the basis on that, what the OP wants wouldn't be exceptional, but serviceable enough.

Dark Archive

Dasrak wrote:


This doesn't actually help you catch up, since this FCB is so powerful that it's effectively become the default. It's not that humans are ahead, it's that non-humans are behind, because human sorcerer has become the gold standard for sorcerers. If we were to have a serious conversation on the merits of Wizard vs Sorcerer vs Arcanist, I would be presuming the human sorcerer favored class bonus is in play in that discussion.

Of course, but I was discussing means of mitigation, not completely removing the negatives. If there was a way of doing that it's be broken as hell, and no one would ever pick anything other than Crossblooded.

The point I was making here is that the existence of the human favored class bonus actually mitigates the damage significantly.

Let's compare spells known of different kinds of level 11 sorcerer's:

9/5/5/4/3/2 (28) - non-human vanilla sorcerer
8/4/4/3/2/1 (22) - non-human Crossblooded sorcerer
11/7/7/6/5/2 (38) - human vanilla sorcerer
10/6/6/5/4/1 (32)- human Crossblooded sorcerer

Non-human Crossblooded sorcerer's have about ~27% fewer spells than the vanilla counterpart (ouch).
While the human Crossblooded sorcerer has only about ~18% fewer spells (less ouch).

Because of the Human FCB the penalties for Crossblooded are only about 50% as bad as they seem at first glance.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Which is pretty bad, especially since it's only the top 2-3 spell levels where your number of spells known matters in combat. And in the particular case being discussed here all the character is really getting out of the stormborn bloodline is a +1 to some save DCs; about one feat in value. If you're not hard-maxing your save DCs you can do without it and avoid taking the crossblooded hits to spells known and to will save.

Indeed with just the unicorn bloodline the charscter can get blood havoc at level 1 rather than level 7 (which is an advantage for 1/3 to 2/3 of the game!) and perhaps get an actual bonus feat at level 7.

IME if you start actually working out what you're doing then there's always a better option than crossblooded sorcerer, unless you're dealing with restricted books allowed. Metamagic isn't so great that it makes up for losing your highest level spell known half the time, it's a hack to make some sort of use of those spell slots. Crossblooded hurts.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Also to clarify, I've already had my fill of druids since we've had one player do like 4 of them, and while we have a group of 8 and thus some redundancy, I'd prefer to try something new.

So while I could do as suggested and just do Unicorn with Blood Havoc...I'll stick with White Mage Arcanist with School Understanding instead.

Thanks guys.


1. What level are you playing at/to?
2. What race are you - human fcb is huge for you?
3. What are the rest of the party? You need protection.


Sorry for the delay but I felt the need to answer stray's questions;

1. We're playing Giantslayer. We are currently at level 13 and probably will make it 18 IF we're lucky.

2. I've not actually chosen a race for this build, but I was considering human yes, and the FCB for it wasn't quite the consideration but it might be for this.

3. There are 7 other people and plenty of meat shields to protect me. At least 3 rangers (two melee focus), one fighter and one summoner/eidolon that we call the Blender of Death.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Thomas Seitz wrote:
2. I've not actually chosen a race for this build, but I was considering human yes, and the FCB for it wasn't quite the consideration but it might be for this.

It's worth noting that the Human subtype is sufficient to meet the prerequisites in this case. That means that half-elves and half-orcs qualify, and there are alternative racial traits for many outsider races (like Ifrit or Aasimar) that give them the human subtype and qualify for this FCB.


Some other healing options for sorcerer, instead of unicorn are solar bloodline, or pheonix, pheonix allows you to heal with fire spells, dealing half there "Damage" in healing instead. This allows ranged and AOE healing. Even a cantrip can be used to heal, unlimitedly, just slowly. You can do this with a stormborn crossblooded, and you'd be fine

But if you can't stomach crossblooded, you could play a samsaran sorcerer (not ideal, as they don't get a racial bonus to charisma, and a penalty to con, could work with empyreal or sage bloodline though, as they get bonuses to wish and int)

But they do get an alternate racial trait, mystic past life, which allows you to learn a limited number if spells from other class lists, so you could steal healing from bard or witch


Dasrak,

I think I want to stick with human because a) I have done a number of human characters and b) Two of my four previous characters were related. (It's a great story about having Ulfen grandfather that's a raider who enjoys 'marrying" various women even if it's not QUITE legal in some places. So two of my characters are like...1/2 cousins or something. Poor Einar and Krishnor... gone before they could truly live... )

So there's that.

Geruvurrda,

My major problem with taking Phoenix bloodline NOW is we're going to be fighting Fire Giants. And while it's not ALL fire giants...it's a lot of fire giants and fire based creatures. So yeah... I might do a Sage sorcerer some time...but it won't be with this one character.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Is Crossblooded Sorcerer worth it if I want to cast both healing spells (Unicorn bloodline) and lightning spells (Stormborn)? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.