What build do you find as the most versatile martial?


Advice


For the most part, i don't mean "which martial can be build the most ways" but "what build have you found that covers the most situations"

there are a lot of ways and multiclass that enable myriad concepts for martials imo, giving them options both from the start and as they level up to do much, MUCH more than "i full attack" (and obviously that's a good thing)

which one has picked your interest?

i cant yet decide who i personally like more from:

monk/barbarian focused on maneuvers. extremely mobile and can switch from control to damage in the blink of the eye.
ranger/fighter, taking all sorts of "press" attacks to the extreme with his incredibly low MAP
champion/monk with shield and weapon, similar to monk/barbarian, but instead of control/damage, he is defense/damage hybrid
rogue/bard, the "least" martial out of all, but a seriously mean debuff machine on top of the usual rogue skill shenanigans.


I like the Ranger taking advantage of press traits better from your options, it is specially good with two-handed weapons.

For myself I like Rogue/Ranger a lot in theory, I just wished that we had a Racket to support bows or other long ranged weapons or Scoundrel feint worked in ranged.


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Human (Versatile) monk, 18 Dex
1st- Fleet, Natural Ambition (Ki Strike), Monastic Weaponry
2nd- Elemental Fist, Quick Jump
3rd- Expert Athletics, Feather Step
4th- Flying Kick, Powerful Leap
5th- General Training (Titan Wrestler), Expert Acrobatics
6th- Ki Blast, Cat Fall
7th- Master Acrobatics, Incredible Initiative
8th- Wild Winds Initiate, Kip Up
9th- Multitalented (Rogue Dedication), Master Athletics
10th- Sneak Attacker, Wall Jump
11th- Expert Diplomacy, Toughness
12th- Meditative Focus, Hobnobber
13th- General Training (Fast Recovery), Expert Stealth
14th- Wild Winds Gust, ?
15th- Legendary Athletics, Cloud Jump

Reach (with bo staff), ranged (shuriken until Wild Winds Initiate), mobility (including leaps), energy damage (with Elemental Fist), and area damage (Ki Blast, Wild Winds Gust).

A less developed switch-hitter concept I'm thinking of:
Human (Versatile) ranger (precision), 16+ Str, 16+ Dex
1st- Fleet or Incredible Initiative, Natural Ambition (Crossbow Ace), Twin Takedown
2nd- Quick Draw, ?
3rd- Expert ?, Ancestral Paragon (Unconventional Weaponry [Kukri])
4th- Running Reload, ?
5th- General Training (Incredible Initiative or Fleet), Expert ?
6th- Twin Parry, ?
7th- Master ?, ?
8th- Deadly Aim, ?
9th- Multitalented (Druid Dedication), Master ?
10th- Basic Druid Spellcasting, ?
11th- Expert ?, ?
12th- Penetrating Shot, ?
13th- General Training (?), Master Nature
14th- Expert Druid Spellcasting, ?
15th- Legendary ?, ?

Primarily ranged, but can easily switch to melee with Quick Draw; Twin Takedown + Twin Parry (probably kukri/main gauche) to boost AC while keeping the number of melee attacks about the same; druid spells later for additional versatility (and/or damage with Magical Crafting and Spellstrike Ammunition).


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Monks.

Combat-altering 3D mobility.
Typically have a free hand for maneuvers, or even utility.
Can fight near full ability in social venues.
Can choose saves to match the campaign's threats.
Have an early, great debuff w/ Stunning Fist.
Brawling has a solid debuff on crits when specialization kicks in.
(And those stack, and while doing your default attack anyway.)
Have a good early multi-attack option w/ Flurry.
Stand Still is a solid AoO substitute.
Can self-heal.
Gets both cold iron & silver on their best weapon(s).
Have a spammable AoE at high levels!
Have 1d8 agile + finesse options comparable to Sawtooth Sabers.

That's some ridiculous versatility.
It has its cost in that Monk's don't get much in the way of boosts to attack, damage, or MAP, but when you're always in position, that makes up for a lot.

Plus, though I'd likely not take the two feats, sometimes you can throw an evil overlord's dagger back in his head, even if it was your dagger to begin with.
Cheers.


shroudb wrote:

For the most part, i don't mean "which martial can be build the most ways" but "what build have you found that covers the most situations"

there are a lot of ways and multiclass that enable myriad concepts for martials imo, giving them options both from the start and as they level up to do much, MUCH more than "i full attack" (and obviously that's a good thing)

which one has picked your interest?

Myself, I've made a Thief rogue/wizard I'm pleased with and a Ruffian rogue/druid that's interesting [1/10 min Shillelagh from Verdant Staff and Tempest Surge to use focus on].


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Castilliano wrote:


Plus, though I'd likely not take the two feats, sometimes you can throw an evil overlord's dagger back in his head, even if it was your dagger to begin with.
Cheers.

"It's all in the reflexes."

Gotta love Big Trouble in Little China. :)


Probably the monk.

Very Fast and action efficient.


I haven't played it yet, but I think a precision ranger archer/great weapon user would be a really well-rounded martial that covers a lot of bases. The ranger has a lot great traits to start with. A ranger with a great weapon and precision can use them together. Precision isn't limited to agile weapons.

You get good tracking. You get Legendary Perception. You have a good array of feats to take different things like gravity weapon which works well with precision and a great weapon build like picking up Mauler and Power Attack.


Kyrone wrote:

I like the Ranger taking advantage of press traits better from your options, it is specially good with two-handed weapons.

For myself I like Rogue/Ranger a lot in theory, I just wished that we had a Racket to support bows or other long ranged weapons or Scoundrel feint worked in ranged.

Mastermind works sort of. I think its the best rogue archer. But its a concept I haven't tested yet.


Deriven Firelion wrote:

I haven't played it yet, but I think a precision ranger archer/great weapon user would be a really well-rounded martial that covers a lot of bases. The ranger has a lot great traits to start with. A ranger with a great weapon and precision can use them together. Precision isn't limited to agile weapons.

You get good tracking. You get Legendary Perception. You have a good array of feats to take different things like gravity weapon which works well with precision and a great weapon build like picking up Mauler and Power Attack.

Plus, if you use a finesse 2-hand weapon like the Elven Curved Blade, Spiked Chain, or Bladed Scarf, you can focus on your Dexterity so that all of your attacks are as accurate as you can make them plus the other dexterity benefits like skills and reflex saves.


Gortle wrote:
Kyrone wrote:

I like the Ranger taking advantage of press traits better from your options, it is specially good with two-handed weapons.

For myself I like Rogue/Ranger a lot in theory, I just wished that we had a Racket to support bows or other long ranged weapons or Scoundrel feint worked in ranged.

Mastermind works sort of. I think its the best rogue archer. But its a concept I haven't tested yet.

When I posted that was before APG, so it only had Scoundrel, Ruffian and Thief.

Today however I like Flurry Ranger with Alchemist Dedication a lot, mixing maneuvers, strikes and debuffs with bombs like dread ampoules and even being able to heal with the focus spell.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Deriven Firelion wrote:

I haven't played it yet, but I think a precision ranger archer/great weapon user would be a really well-rounded martial that covers a lot of bases. The ranger has a lot great traits to start with. A ranger with a great weapon and precision can use them together. Precision isn't limited to agile weapons.

You get good tracking. You get Legendary Perception. You have a good array of feats to take different things like gravity weapon which works well with precision and a great weapon build like picking up Mauler and Power Attack.

You would be right. Hunt Prey ignoring the first range increment is a huge tactical advantage in the right setting. Snares and animal companions also add a new dimension to combat that no other martial has access to without archetypes. They are also the best at losing pursuit thanks to Trackless Step and Wild Stride, which dovetails nicely with their Stealth feats.

Speaking of which, Camouflage let's you skip the Hide action in natural terrain, and with Swift Sneak you reach this point where every Stride you take has a chance to make you unobserved.

Even the flurry ranger is still extremely flexible. And Outwit gives up a lot of damage but can do a lot of other cool things.

Runner up would be the monk for me, basically for the reasons Castilliano listed. Plus Whirling Throw is a really singular effect. There are very few things in the game that move an enemy as far as that does.


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I see this old thread was before the Investigator. They can max out Int and with Devise a Stratagem they can use it for ranged attacks, melee, attacks, and athletics maneuvers (with Athletic Stratagist). They can also pick up Wizard MC or Witch MC to use Int for cantrips.

An Investigator/Wizard MC holding a starknife and a whip can use Int for:
• melee attack with starknife
• nonlethal melee attack with whip
• ranged attack with starknife
• trip with whip
• disarm with trip
• cantrip targeting AC or a save

If they also keep Dex high they can use that for secondary attacks such as:
• melee attack with starknife
• nonlethal melee attack with whip
• ranged attack with starknife

That's a lot of flexibility.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Gisher wrote:

I see this old thread was before the Investigator. They can max out Int and with Devise a Stratagem they can use it for ranged attacks, melee, attacks, and athletics maneuvers (with Athletic Stratagist). They can also pick up Wizard MC or Witch MC to use Int for cantrips.

An Investigator/Wizard MC holding a starknife and a whip can use Int for:
• melee attack with starknife
• nonlethal melee attack with whip
• ranged attack with starknife
• trip with whip
• disarm with trip
• cantrip targeting AC or a save

If they also keep Dex high they can use that for secondary attacks such as:
• melee attack with starknife
• nonlethal melee attack with whip
• ranged attack with starknife

That's a lot of flexibility.

I second this. I'm in the early levels of a Forensic Medicine Investigator build with the Wizard Dedication and later the Alchemist Dedication (Devise a Stratagem w/ bombs should be awesome). Ability scores are generally INT>STR=CON>DEX~WIS>CHA and focusing on Recall Knowledge skills, Medicine, Crafting, Athletics, Survival and Acrobatics.

I am also using a whip as well as wearing a spiked gauntlet on each hand and a buckler so I always have a free hand to grab one of the many consumables I plan to have available.

Coincidentally, this started as an attempt at recreating the Psychodermist variation of Mavaro, the iconic Occultist (Gisher's profile pic).


This guy? :)

My favorite Investigator build right now is going Wizard MC then Arcane Archer. The class has so many possible builds.

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Gisher wrote:

This guy? :)

My favorite Investigator build right now is going Wizard MC then Arcane Archer. The class has so many possible builds.

Yup, that's the one! And I also have gone through so many variations of builds for just this one character.


Gisher wrote:

I see this old thread was before the Investigator. They can max out Int and with Devise a Stratagem they can use it for ranged attacks, melee, attacks, and athletics maneuvers (with Athletic Stratagist). They can also pick up Wizard MC or Witch MC to use Int for cantrips.

An Investigator/Wizard MC holding a starknife and a whip can use Int for:
• melee attack with starknife
• nonlethal melee attack with whip
• ranged attack with starknife
• trip with whip
• disarm with trip
• cantrip targeting AC or a save

If they also keep Dex high they can use that for secondary attacks such as:
• melee attack with starknife
• nonlethal melee attack with whip
• ranged attack with starknife

That's a lot of flexibility.

Are investigators considered martial characters? They feel more like a skill monkey class, what with their feats and high intelligence requirements.


King_Of_The_Crossroads wrote:
Gisher wrote:

I see this old thread was before the Investigator. They can max out Int and with Devise a Stratagem they can use it for ranged attacks, melee, attacks, and athletics maneuvers (with Athletic Stratagist). They can also pick up Wizard MC or Witch MC to use Int for cantrips.

An Investigator/Wizard MC holding a starknife and a whip can use Int for:
• melee attack with starknife
• nonlethal melee attack with whip
• ranged attack with starknife
• trip with whip
• disarm with trip
• cantrip targeting AC or a save

If they also keep Dex high they can use that for secondary attacks such as:
• melee attack with starknife
• nonlethal melee attack with whip
• ranged attack with starknife

That's a lot of flexibility.

Are investigators considered martial characters? They feel more like a skill monkey class, what with their feats and high intelligence requirements.

They get Master-level proficiency with weapons and armor, which is the main qualifier for whether one is a martial class or not.

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