Mwangi Antagonists


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


So, I'm in the process of putting together a primer for the Mwangi Expanse, and I wanted your input on this; as written in 2e, there aren't a ton of major threats left in the region! Walkena and his rule over Mzali seems to be the main one, but we've lost most of the focus for the servants of Angazhan, the colonial powers have been pushed out of Vidrian (though I fully intend to have an Order of the Coil insurgency), and the Aspis Consortium and Shackles pirates are fighting each other. What non-Walkena big bads am I missing, if any?

Shadow Lodge

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keftiu wrote:
(though I fully intend to have an Order of the Coil insurgency)

How? Insurgencies thrive only with the support of the people, and if anyone can't get that, it's the Order of the Coil.

If you want to have them play Contra, they'll need an effective foreign sponsor.

Liberty's Edge

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The Bekyar leap to mind. And while the Gorilla King is dead, the Charau Ka remain, and remain deadly. Indeed, I know of no real evidence that demons and demon worshipers as a whole are any less of a threat than they ever were on an individual level. They're less directed now, and so less of a military threat in a sense, certainly, but there was no real campaign culling their numbers so they remain a deadly threat to travelers, villages, and isolated tribes.

That and Walkena, plus the aforementioned colonial remnants, definitely seem like the big ones. Though Geb may also throw their oar in the water. Arazni is dead and gone, and with her dead, we really don't know what the leaders of Geb may choose to do, and the Mwangi Expanse is right nearby. Geb himself has no interests in expansion, but he's also a very hands off manager, so who knows what some lich or vampire might do? All that is pretty speculative, though. Geb would certainly be an interesting choice as foreign sponsors for the Order of the Coil if you want to go that direction.


zimmerwald1915 wrote:
keftiu wrote:
(though I fully intend to have an Order of the Coil insurgency)

How? Insurgencies thrive only with the support of the people, and if anyone can't get that, it's the Order of the Coil.

If you want to have them play Contra, they'll need an effective foreign sponsor.

They have a nice labor pool of wannabes from the Sargavan colonials that were driven out, and there are a few potential patrons; the old Sargava book had at least one wealthy Chelish noble sponsoring adventurers in the region, and the Consortium is right there in Bloodcove and a few other trading posts. I'm not saying they're a massive threat, but they make for a fun loose end to be hunted down.

Shadow Lodge

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keftiu wrote:
They have a nice labor pool of wannabes from the Sargavan colonials that were driven out

For recruits, they're fine, but the Order of the Coil can't really go to ground among them. They're too thin on the ground, too conspicuous, and easily placed in concentration camps.

Quote:
the old Sargava book had at least one wealthy Chelish noble sponsoring adventurers in the region,

Pretty sure this guy, and others in his position, would've caught a bullet.

Quote:
and the Consortium is right there in Bloodcove and a few other trading posts.

They, however, could be a problem, having foreign resources of their own to draw on.


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zimmerwald1915 wrote:
keftiu wrote:
They have a nice labor pool of wannabes from the Sargavan colonials that were driven out

For recruits, they're fine, but the Order of the Coil can't really go to ground among them. They're too thin on the ground, too conspicuous, and easily placed in concentration camps.

Quote:
the old Sargava book had at least one wealthy Chelish noble sponsoring adventurers in the region,

Pretty sure this guy, and others in his position, would've caught a bullet.

Quote:
and the Consortium is right there in Bloodcove and a few other trading posts.
They, however, could be a problem, having foreign resources of their own to draw on.

Not sure why you’re assuming the people of Vidrian established concentration camps, since it’s both pretty uncomfortable and not supported by the lore. It’s not like the Mwangi locked up or slaughtered every single white Sargavan.

Liberty's Edge

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zimmerwald1915 makes a lot of assumptions like that. It's probably best to ignore them and move on unless you want the argument to take over the thread.

Silver Crusade

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Boggards are a serious issue, Serpentfolk as well.

Shadow Lodge

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keftiu wrote:


Not sure why you’re assuming the people of Vidrian established concentration camps

I didn't? I said it would be easy for them to do so.

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zimmerwald1915 wrote:
keftiu wrote:


Not sure why you’re assuming the people of Vidrian established concentration camps
I didn't? I said it would be easy for them to do so.

...


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What if there were certain powers on the Mwangi Expanse that felt they could not freely act because they were kept in check by the power of the Gorilla King? Now that the big bad demon ruler is out of the way, these forces are expanding to fill the power vacuum left behind.

Also, an idea spread unprompted to my mind of a wizard exiled from the Magaambya because he attempted to fuse Arcane Magic with primal magic drawn from the traditions of the Uskwood in Nidal.


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Ventnor wrote:

What if there were certain powers on the Mwangi Expanse that felt they could not freely act because they were kept in check by the power of the Gorilla King? Now that the big bad demon ruler is out of the way, these forces are expanding to fill the power vacuum left behind.

Also, an idea spread unprompted to my mind of a wizard exiled from the Magaambya because he attempted to fuse Arcane Magic with primal magic drawn from the traditions of the Uskwood in Nidal.

I’d sooner see a local evil druid than one imported from Avistan. There’s plenty of room for the region to be complete on its own.


do carnivorousness plants count????


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The Free Captains of the Shackles crop up a lot as a problem for the western nations of Garund in the new World Guide- Vidrian has to worry about them, Bloodcove has to worry about them...

Spanish Main-style pirates raiding the coasts make for a good foreign threat that can still preserve a focus on local heroes.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I wouldn't want to push this analogy too far, but Sargava/Vidrian does bear a similarity to South Africa. This opens up a lot of potentially interesting story lines and adventures.

How was the transition from Sargava to Vidrian achieved? Was it more or less violent or peaceful?

What does its post-colonial social structure look like? What's the role and status of the settlers who formerly ruled it?

What evil entities, organizations, etc. might be trying to take advantage of the tensions that are inevitable after such a transition, be it peaceful or violent?


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keftiu wrote:
So, I'm in the process of putting together a primer for the Mwangi Expanse, and I wanted your input on this; as written in 2e, there aren't a ton of major threats left in the region! Walkena and his rule over Mzali seems to be the main one, but we've lost most of the focus for the servants of Angazhan, the colonial powers have been pushed out of Vidrian (though I fully intend to have an Order of the Coil insurgency), and the Aspis Consortium and Shackles pirates are fighting each other. What non-Walkena big bads am I missing, if any?

One of the biggest antagonists is the jungles themselves.


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pjrogers wrote:

I wouldn't want to push this analogy too far, but Sargava/Vidrian does bear a similarity to South Africa. This opens up a lot of potentially interesting story lines and adventures.

How was the transition from Sargava to Vidrian achieved? Was it more or less violent or peaceful?

What does its post-colonial social structure look like? What's the role and status of the settlers who formerly ruled it?

What evil entities, organizations, etc. might be trying to take advantage of the tensions that are inevitable after such a transition, be it peaceful or violent?

Per the new book?

Quote:

After years of constant adversity, the locals finally chose to enact change in their lands. What began as a small revolt by Mwangi servants and slaves soon became a complete overthrow of the nation’s

overlords. Some of the colonists, now several generations removed from the golden age of Cheliax and disdainful of the state of Sargava at the hands of their kin, found camaraderie among the Mwangi peoples and chose to fight alongside them.
The rebelling forces soon grew to massive numbers and were able to take the capital of Eleder with relative ease, displacing the domineering Baron Utilinus. Unfortunately, the rebels also had to contend with the Free Captains who had been exploiting the region. Not content to lose their easy stream of revenue in the form of protection money from Sargava, the Free Captains waged a bloody battle against the rebels, an ordeal that lasted for over a year. After countless engagements and a hastily written alliance with Senghor, the combined forces of the Mwangi and turncoat colonists successfully drove off the pirates. With the Free Captains routed, the lands became the new nation of Vidrian in 4717 ar.
Quote:
The folk of Vidrian are a coalition of disparate Mwangi peoples, united under a common history, cause, and banner. A sizable population of former Sargavan colonists also remains in the nation, protected by law from retaliation. While their aid in the rebellion against their fellows and the Free Captains earned them citizenship, the stark change in Vidric culture that occurred after the Mwangi natives regained control of their land has resulted in a new source of friction between these two groups.

Dark Archive

So basically, the rebellion itself was over fast without much of fighting, the actual battle was against the pirates?


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CorvusMask wrote:
So basically, the rebellion itself was over fast without much of fighting, the actual battle was against the pirates?

Sounds like it was a groundswell that mostly pushed out rather than killed those it removed (especially once it gained some momentum), and then, yes, the pirates threw down in more of a scrap.

Dark Archive

Hmm, so definitely some ex-sargavans who became homeless and refugees in other places(or pirates. Or returned to distant family in cheliax)

Definitely lot of conflict hooks for future


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CorvusMask wrote:

Hmm, so definitely some ex-sargavans who became homeless and refugees in other places(or pirates. Or returned to distant family in cheliax)

Definitely lot of conflict hooks for future

Oh, the book has conflict hooks galore- including between ostensible allies within the region.

Plus:

Quote:

Further complicating the shadow war that regularly spills onto Bloodcove’s city streets are the colonialist refugees from former Sargava who have begun to throng Bloodcove in the hopes of making a fresh start. The chaotic port is far from kind to newcomers, however. In Bloodcove, subterfuge and shady dealings are the only reliable ways to gain traction amid the ever-swirling social miasma. The city’s poor have little to no chance of clawing their way out of the darkest, seediest parts of the Cove, and immigrants soon learn that the best way to gain any standing is

to ally with either the Aspis Consortium or the Free Captains, though this often requires reevaluating one’s moral values.

Shadow Lodge

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Cole Deschain wrote:
What began as a small revolt by Mwangi servants and slaves soon became a complete overthrow of the nation’s overlords. Some of the colonists, now several generations removed from the golden age of Cheliax and disdainful of the state of Sargava at the hands of their kin, found camaraderie among the Mwangi peoples and chose to fight alongside them.

*Sigh*

Did you have to, Paizo? Did you really?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Cole Deschain wrote:
Per the new book?

Very cool, I guess I didn't realize this was already shipping. Once again, I don't want to push the analogy too far, but it does sound somewhat South African with a multi-racial/ethnic nationalism and some degree of legal protection for minority populations.

Dark Archive

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zimmerwald1915 wrote:
Cole Deschain wrote:
What began as a small revolt by Mwangi servants and slaves soon became a complete overthrow of the nation’s overlords. Some of the colonists, now several generations removed from the golden age of Cheliax and disdainful of the state of Sargava at the hands of their kin, found camaraderie among the Mwangi peoples and chose to fight alongside them.

*Sigh*

Did you have to, Paizo? Did you really?

Not sure what you are referring to? I mean, its not like there is some sort of real life americans joining up with native americans to have rebellion agaisnt american government thing going on?

If it makes you feel better(assuming your reaction is about how idealistic the situation sounds), you could assume lots of sargavans with chelish roots were more opportunistic because they saw were winds were blowing :p


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zimmerwald1915 wrote:
Cole Deschain wrote:
What began as a small revolt by Mwangi servants and slaves soon became a complete overthrow of the nation’s overlords. Some of the colonists, now several generations removed from the golden age of Cheliax and disdainful of the state of Sargava at the hands of their kin, found camaraderie among the Mwangi peoples and chose to fight alongside them.

*Sigh*

Did you have to, Paizo? Did you really?

The Sargavan colonials have had several centuries to stratify. Odds are pretty good a poor or middle-class colonial had more in common with the locals than they did with the wealthy elite.

I’m very sorry this undercuts your apparent desire for ethnic concentration camps.

EDIT: Also, something likely core to the success of Vidrian’s revolution is the fact that the militia was integrated. While colonials still received preferential treatment (and made up much of the officer class), there’s a pretty good change racism takes a back seat to fighting for your life against raids from the Bandu, the charau-ka, and from Mzali. It’s important to remember that Sargava was not some brand new outpost, it was a nation that’s existed longer than white people have been on the east coast of North America. That’s plenty of time to intermingle.


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Also, to steer back on track now, it looks like a Mwangi campaign has a rough easy shape taking place:

Figure out where your game is based (most likely Vidrian, Nantambu, or Kibwe)
Take the fight to a chosen mundane-ish bad guy (Sargavan holdouts, the Aspis Consortium, Shackles pirates)
Ramp up into a supernatural threat (the easy ones being the cult of Angazhan or Walkena in Mzali, but an original one or bringing back the King of Biting Ants works well here too)

Which honestly seems like a pretty solid skeleton to build from, and makes the region pretty satisfying to boot. I really appreciate how distinct each locale feels, especially the contrast when you visit Bloodcove or Senghor pop.

Shadow Lodge

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keftiu wrote:
The Sargavan colonials have had several centuries to stratify. Odds are pretty good a poor or middle-class colonial had more in common with the locals than they did with the wealthy elite.

Yes, and that has led to cross-racial class solidarity a number of times in history that I can count on one hand. And certainly never spontaneously, as it is presented here, but only ever as the product of long-term organizing.

EDIT: And you're being far too generous. The social position of the Taldan sympathizers is not mentioned, only that of the original Mwangi revolutionaries. The Taldans are presented as being nebulously "dissatisfied" with the state of the country, whatever that means. Plus, it's Paizo content not written by Nick Logue. You really think they'd put class struggle in it?

Silver Crusade

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zimmerwald1915 wrote:
And certainly never spontaneously, as it is presented here, but only ever as the product of long-term organizing.
You're assuming the former.
Quote:
Plus, it's Paizo content not written by Nick Logue. You really think they'd put class struggle in it?

... you haven't actually read much Pathfinder stuff have you?

Sczarni

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If you are still looking for antagonists, it looks like the Aspis Consortium are expanding into the expanse. They were setting up shop in Kibwe during the Firesoul novel in 4715 AR.


Cpt_kirstov wrote:
If you are still looking for antagonists, it looks like the Aspis Consortium are expanding into the expanse. They were setting up shop in Kibwe during the Firesoul novel in 4715 AR.

They also own Bloodcove.

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