Every noble or rich person should be a wizard...


Advice

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Well, Paizo can (and will) do whatever they want to their setting. Personally I consider any argument which relies on the current state of Paizo's setting to not hold much water given how mutable it is.

But if you want to carry over Golarion 1.0 preconceptions into Golarion 2.0 you go for it. I've stopped paying attention to Golarion 2.0 myself.


If a wizard put everything into utility and buffs I'd consider that to be a waste of a wizard. But maybe those sorts of builds work better in PF2e.

And sure. NPCs can be built like PCs. What's that got to do with 90% of NPC wizards are going to prioritize intelligence?

Liberty's Edge

graystone wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Diligent and well educated nobles
We really haven't determined if that is still true in PF2. Nothing currently in the PF2 rules indicate that wizard need to be any more Diligent and well educated than any other class. You could say a fighter needs to be Diligent and well educated to be "an undisputed master of weaponry and combat techniques" as they "have honed your martial skills into an art form".

Frankly, most nobles probably don't become Fighters, or have the discipline required to do so, either. Unlike magic, you can learn fighting without that degree of discipline and I suspect most will...but to the point where they count as Fighters? No, I would not expect that.

Most nobles will (and should, based on the setting) be built as NPCs with social skills and decent combat training, just like the Aristocrat NPC Class resulted in in PF1.


John Lynch 106 wrote:

If a wizard put everything into utility and buffs I'd consider that to be a waste of a wizard. But maybe those sorts of builds work better in PF2e.

And sure. NPCs can be built like PCs. What's that got to do with 90% of NPC wizards are going to prioritize intelligence?

I'm going to assume an "almost" in there because of a wizard should have some personal defense spells.

Playing a wizard, I did this in a 1e campain. (We lacked a Cleric, but had a water kineticist for healing.) The sheer number of things my defense/utility buff spells helped negate was amazing, even though I didn't have any combat presence other than just a crossbow and a COUPLE personal defense spells.

But here in 2e? I think that build doesn't work so well. Aside from the protection spells getting nerfed, they're not on our spell list any more. Also there's not so many utility spells anymore... yet.

But find a few spells you like, and then just the cantrips Produce Flame/Acid Splash and Electric Arc will give you a combat presence. At that point, I don't think the wizard can be wasted, except by preparing only spells that aren't relevant.


james014Aura wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:

If a wizard put everything into utility and buffs I'd consider that to be a waste of a wizard. But maybe those sorts of builds work better in PF2e.

And sure. NPCs can be built like PCs. What's that got to do with 90% of NPC wizards are going to prioritize intelligence?

I'm going to assume an "almost" in there because of a wizard should have some personal defense spells.

No. I'm not saying every spell has to be offensive. But nor do I think a wizard in PF1e can contribute as well to the party if they ONLY cast buffs and utility spells compared with a wizard who takes a more balanced approach.

james014Aura wrote:
Playing a wizard, I did this in a 1e campain. (We lacked a Cleric, but had a water kineticist for healing.) The sheer number of things my defense/utility buff spells helped negate was amazing, even though I didn't have any combat presence other than just a crossbow and a COUPLE personal defense spells.

I'm impressed. I'd have loved to be able to watch two versions of the game side by side with one that has a wizard as you described and a more traditional wizard just to see whether the no offence wizard truly was contributing just as much as the some offensiveness wizard. But alas that isn't possible :P


I spammed long-duration buffs at the start of the adventuring day.
1) Extended Magic Circle against Evil, for immunity to suggestion, domination, and Feeblemind (the enemies LOVED this one in this AP for some reason)
2) Extended Energy resist effects because we were up against certain powerful Transmuter and his army so of course I'd give us some defenses against magic. These weren't always NEEDED, but they gave us a bunch of confidence and were useful when they came up.
3) Nondetection, Detect Scrying. Basically just some guards against the more powerful divination effects.
4) sensory buffs so enemies couldn't sneak up. Echolocation, See Invisibility, etc.
5) Private Sanctum + Dimension Lock + Alarm on our base
6) Extended Heroism on the martials
7) Polymorph Any Object, nerfed by the GM to only last two days, to give us hefty bonuses (Astral Deva for a martial, Erlking for myself)
8) Extended Life Bubble because we were in the mountains and took damage if we didn't have this.

Other spells:
Dispel Magic and friends, Teleportation effects, a couple summon monsters, Time Stop, Quickened Liberating Command, a couple set up our base spells. I had a bunch of Mirror Images and some Glitterdust, etc. I also used Gate once to whistle up a Planetar, and a Plane Shift to banish an enemy we really didn't want to kill (a DIFFERENT Planetar).

Combat spells, which I only rarely used:
Mass Icy Prison, Prismatic Spray and Wall [could swap them out for summon monsters, I had a power to prep a couple spells in one slot; I did this for area control rather than actual damage]

Basically, my shtick was that it was really hard to hurt us (the rest of the party had great AC, and I shored up our energy damage), made the party more accurate, made VERY sure nothing would sneak up on us, and made very sure we had countermeasures to the "save or dies" that the AP loved spamming - or at least made them waste a turn dispelling, which would let our martials slaughter them in the mean time.
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It will be a while before that level of utility enters PF2, due to the nerfs to magic, but I definitely see some useful utility at most levels, before heightening. But now? Cantrips mean we'll have a combat presence ANYWAY. I agree that EVERYTHING (except Cantrips) into utility is currently a waste; a mage needs a few blasts now for the tougher enemies. But my philosophy is, the whole power of magic is solving problems you can't otherwise solve, not blasting a hole in things.

I hope that more utility spells will be released soon, allowing my favorite toolbox build to return.

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