What do folks think about the Bard Dedication?


Advice


Howdy.

SO I"m just curious, what are folks opinions on Bard D edication line?

Off hand, it kind of looks appealing because for a few feats, you could get Inspire Competence (I think) which will let you Aid with one skill. Which helps greatly when you're not a rogue. My alchemist is finding it somewhat appealing. (Except his Charisma isn't exactly amazing unless I switch stats around).

But in general, Do folks like how that looks? Does it compare decently against othe rdedications?

Is stuff like inspire competenece (and whatever other ones you can get) worth while?

As far as I can tell you can't g et inspire competence and versitile performance. Which is too bad though.


I find it one of the most versatile and powerful archetypes.

To start with, it's a caster MC, and those offer the most from the get go (2 cantrips+ access to wands/scrolls is WAY better than what is basically a general feat or two for most martial archetypes)

Secondly, occult list is amazing for MC offering buffs, utility, and healing.

And then you get access to the composition cantrips which are some of the most versatile "3rd actions" you can find.


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Zwordsman wrote:
As far as I can tell you can't g et inspire competence and versitile performance. Which is too bad though.

The trick is first taking the muse of which you DON'T want to have the first level feat. Then pick up the one you want via Multifarious Muse.

Level 2: Bard Dedication -> Maestro Muse
Level 4: Basic Muse's Whispers -> Multifarious Muse (Polymath) -> Versatile Performance
Level 6: Advanced Muse's Whispers -> Inspire Competence


Huh.. That is a trick I would not have thought of. Neat there.

Thanks for that. I"ll have to check that out later.

and then compare my Alch-ranger vs Alch bard, and which fulfils the character concept better/for the group.


Bard MCD is strong, with the main hurdle being the Cha.
It has options for many builds, whether Shield for the greatsword guy or Inspire Courage for the support or a new line of spells for a Sorcerer.

My favorite is Bardic Lore for the Int PC or most anybody with Unmistakable Lore and/or Dubious Knowledge.
Two feats (one solid already) to have a chance of knowing something about any topic? Yes, please.


I actually find Charisma to be a really great stat on all characters, so i don't think it's a hurdle actually.

The way they made the Cha skills, it's a universally useful attribute, I'm quite pleased by what they did there.

Now... if they could unload all the stuff they put into Wisdom and throw Int a cookie as well, it would approach "balanced stats" for once imo... (i alraedy think they even managed to balance str/dex quite good as well)


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Found a nifty combo: Dread Striker Rogue + Dirge of Doom. Unless your opponent is beyond 30ft or immune to fear, enchantment, emotion or precision damage every strike will be a sneak attack. Plus the benefit of enemies at -1 to checks

Comes online late, but rogues already get a lot out of Charisma and all the other discussed benefits are great as well.


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Liegence wrote:
Plus the benefit of enemies at -1 to checks

It's even better. It's -1 to checks and DCs. And since AC is a DC, they have a -3 AC against your attacks (-1 from Frightened and -2 from Flat-Footed).

Also works great the other way round, a bard picking up Dread Striker via rogue multiclass. That -3 AC on your target mostly makes up for the bard's low-ish weapon proficiency.

Verdant Wheel

The Casting side of it is objectively worse than Cleric, Druid, and Wizard. (And on par with Sorcerer).

MCD Bards only get 1 spell in their Repertoire per spell level, whereas Cleric and Druids get all spells, and Wizards get 2 spells per level.

To me, this makes it a rough MCD to consider.


The Bard’s cantrips are what you want, not their main spells. I think comparing the dedication to the other casters’ is comparing apples to oranges. Single action buffs that you can keep using all day are incredibly valuable, and a lot of characters (even other casters) will appreciate something nice to do with their third action.


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Occult cantrip are super light on attack cantrips: the only upside is that if you have innate attack cantrips, it uses cha and your spellcasting roll.

Blave has it right, make sure the muse you want is your 'second' choice.

My biggest issue is Cha to be honest: unless your base class has a real driving NEED for cha, it's a convenient stat to leave at baseline to pump up more universally used stats [AC, saves, Perception, Initiative, HP, ect]. This limits your base class quite a bit IMO. For me, the Cha skills are great if you already have Cha already.

Verdant Wheel

To be perfectly honest, I see bards as more Prepared casters than Spontaneous casters, preparing (practicing) spells (songs) from their repertoire (musical memory and/or notes), and able to learn new spells from other Bards without having to gain a level...


rainzax wrote:
To be perfectly honest, I see bards as more Prepared casters than Spontaneous casters, preparing (practicing) spells (songs) from their repertoire (musical memory and/or notes), and able to learn new spells from other Bards without having to gain a level...

I always assumed it was kind of.. you could learn any actual song or performance, but you had to have that natural spark to weave magic into your performance.

Which was represented by the spont spell list method


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
shroudb wrote:

I actually find Charisma to be a really great stat on all characters, so i don't think it's a hurdle actually.

The way they made the Cha skills, it's a universally useful attribute, I'm quite pleased by what they did there.

Now... if they could unload all the stuff they put into Wisdom and throw Int a cookie as well, it would approach "balanced stats" for once imo... (i alraedy think they even managed to balance str/dex quite good as well)

Int already gives extra trained skills and is the key stat for Arcana, Crafting, Lore, Occultism, and Society, so it probably already has enough "cookies." Wis does give bonuses to Perception (which is what initiative is usually based on in PF2) and Will saves, so it probably is a bit stronger than Int.


I like the CHA synergy with a main classed Sorcerer, and the Spell coverage if you pick Primal as a Sorcerer and you get the Occult by default from Bard dedication. You get to meddle with healing, blasting, utility, and (de)buffing in one tasty package.

That might not be appealing to most people, but it certainly appeals to me.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I'll be taking the Bard dedication on my PFS main (a Druid). So the CHA synergy isn't there; but starting with a 14 and advancing it every 5 levels isn't *too* onerous for me; I'll be getting some secondary benefits like a better Diplomacy modifier for my Wild Empathy checks.
I've been planning to put about half my class feats into the Bard MC, the other half will mostly be the Animal Companion feats. Initially, I thought I'd just want to go the Spellcasting route with Bard MC, but looking at it again I think I might just be better off grabbing compositions though Bard feats instead (Inspire Courage for sure; maybe Inspire Competence / Counter-Perform as well).


While it maybe more interesting, then actually powerful, going with a Occult Bloodline Sorcerer and then picking up the Bard dedication (or Bard to Occult Sorcerer) for the spell casting feats gives something most double casting classes do not have. True, you don’t have the versatility in spells which you would receive from choosing two different magical traditions, which is a somewhat big. However, it’s the only combination with both the same casting stat (Cha) and using the same Spell Tradition Prof (Occult). This means DC in you ‘off’ casting class, will be just as powerful as your main one. Become the ultimate Occult caster :)

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