Base Class: Behemoth


Homebrew and House Rules


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I was requested to do a conversion of this 5e class and the idea caught my interest. I do like the idea of an armor-centric non-champion class.

Here's my current rough draft; all of the class features are done but so far I only have level 1 and 2 class feats. I'm still getting used to the balance of 2e, so this is probably rough in some places; I'd love feedback. I've enabled comments if anyone wants to leave any.

Behemoth class.


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I think that Resilient Bulwark is very strong, and also a bit too complicated, though I like the idea. At level 1 with medium armor and no shield, you could resist 5 damage, which is the same as a steel shield. Unlike shield, this doesn't take a hand nor damage a shield. I would make it either your item bonus to AC, or your proficiency, not both. Proficiency would probably be better, since it would not unduly punish behemoths wearing, say, hide.

I would also cut the shield aspect, and maybe make something like it a level 1 class feat.

It's also unclear how this should interact with the armor specialization abilities.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Resilient Bulwark went through a couple different iterations. It's balanced more against the Champion's Reaction than it is against shields, and the bit about using a shield was added so that a class that obviously wants a shield isn't competing between two different reactions.

I think it is a problem that it's as good or better than a shield at low levels. However, at higher levels (10+) it's typically worse than a shield appropriate for the level unless you combine it with a shield. Unfortunately, I haven't found a good way to make the math line up at all levels without it being even more complicated.

It has a problem if it's strictly worse than a shield, because you don't want to put the player in the situation of "I have these special abilities that trigger on the bulwark but it doesn't block nearly as much damage as my shield so I never use it". For example, if it was only proficiency, when you hit Legendary it would be blocking 8 compared to a 17-20 for a shield.

Eventually I decided that it's probably okay if a class whose main feature is tanking damage is better at it than other classes - it's sort of this class's version of the "fighter +2".

I like the idea of splitting out the "enhanced by a shield" bit to a level 1 feat, actually; should help people not feel pidgeonholed into using a shield just because the bonus is there.

As far as how this interacts with armor specialization: I didn't put any words to that because there's no need; the base PF2e rules apply. Resistance never stacks, so you get the armor specialization resistance against all qualifying attacks, unless you use Bulwark, and then you get that instead. This is the same way it works for Champion's Reactions, who also don't have any dedicated words to that effect as far as I am aware.

Thank you for your feedback!

EDIT: I moved Phalanx Stance (which I already thought was too strong) to level 4, and split the shield synergy for Bulwark off into a level 1 feat.


oh your doing a 2.0 conversion? i haven't been playing 2.0 D:


What is the deal with the flat footed effect mentioned in Brutal Rend (at level 11)? I can't find that rule elsewhere.

I also agree that Bulkwark could use some fine-tuning.

Maybe you could resist just 1 damage at base? You could also add that DR to shield blocks and give non-shield users the option of increasing the DR by using an action on their turn (similar to the shield block action but not requiring the shield). When properly tuned, the shield Behemoth's Bulwark should still outperform the Behemoth with no shield but both can have the option of a shield-block-like option.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

@Skoll Drachen - You posted your request in the 2.0 homebrew forum so I assumed that was what you were looking for. Sorry to hear it isn't! You can find the Pathfinder 1.0 homebrew forum here: Homebrew and House Rules Perhaps someone there can help you?

@Excaliburproxy - I'm not sure what you mean. One of the effects of Brutal Rend is to make creatures flat-footed against your attacks if you have used your Bulwark against them recently and they are bleeding. All of the Drives at that level give you an ability that is more powerful against enemies that have recently triggered your Bulwark.

Regarding the DR of Bulwark... I think the biggest issue is that it needs to be a bit lower at low levels. If you compare it directly to shield block, it is better than shield block before level 10 and worse than shield block after level 10. It has a similar comparison to the champion's reaction - before level 7 it is stronger, and then after level 7 it is weaker.

I want to keep it being influenced by your armor, though. Perhaps instead of adding your armor's item bonus to AC, it should be a flat 2 for medium armor and 3 for heavy armor? That would bring it below shield block at all levels and below champion's reaction past level 4. It has the problem, though, that bulwark + shield block then blocks less damage than a straight shield block, which is very non-ideal.


MaxAstro wrote:

@Skoll Drachen - You posted your request in the 2.0 homebrew forum so I assumed that was what you were looking for. Sorry to hear it isn't! You can find the Pathfinder 1.0 homebrew forum here: Homebrew and House Rules Perhaps someone there can help you?

@Excaliburproxy - I'm not sure what you mean. One of the effects of Brutal Rend is to make creatures flat-footed against your attacks if you have used your Bulwark against them recently and they are bleeding. All of the Drives at that level give you an ability that is more powerful against enemies that have recently triggered your Bulwark.

Regarding the DR of Bulwark... I think the biggest issue is that it needs to be a bit lower at low levels. If you compare it directly to shield block, it is better than shield block before level 10 and worse than shield block after level 10. It has a similar comparison to the champion's reaction - before level 7 it is stronger, and then after level 7 it is weaker.

I want to keep it being influenced by your armor, though. Perhaps instead of adding your armor's item bonus to AC, it should be a flat 2 for medium armor and 3 for heavy armor? That would bring it below shield block at all levels and below champion's reaction past level 4. It has the problem, though, that bulwark + shield block then blocks less damage than a straight shield block, which is very non-ideal.

Sorry, I missread the text. Somehow, I read "if" as "as if", I think.

And yeah: you can start bulwark out at 2 or 3 and then scale it up later slowly. Bulwark is essentially this class's signature move so I think you should make it worthwhile. I think it should probably consistently outperform the Paladin's reaction in terms of DR; DR for the tank's allies is better than DR for the tank (since the tank is going to be hard to hit to begin with and will eventually be getting some amount of DR from armor specialization anyways). I'd adjust those number accordingly.

Just make raising a shield add its hardness to the effects of bulwark? That way shielded Bulwarks essentially get a super shield block.

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