Changes coming in Guide 6.2


Pathfinder Adventure Card Society

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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We still have a couple of things to work out before we issue Guide 6.2, but you may immediately make changes posted in this thread.

On page 8, the first paragraph of Build the Vault should read:

Starting with Season 6, each adventure includes rules for building the vault. In earlier seasons, each adventure lists the products that adventure requires. To build the vault for a scenario in one of those adventures, start by adding all of the cards from the listed products to the vault, then remove all Basic and Elite banes whose level is at least three lower than the # of the adventure, and you may remove any non-blessing boons that fit that criteria. For example, if you’re setting up a scenario in adventure 5, you’ll remove all Basic and Elite banes of levels 0 (that is, B, P, and C), 1, and 2, and you may remove any non-blessing Basic or Elite boons of those levels. If you don’t have time to remove those cards in advance, you can remove them as you find them—when you come across one, just replace it with another card of the same type from the vault. Ignore any instructions on the Adventure Path card related to banishing Basic and Elite cards.

(Changed sentences are in bold.)

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

The last bullet under Modifying Your Class Deck should read:

• If your Class Deck box contains boons that have the same name as boons in the Core Set or the Curse of the Crimson Throne Adventure Path, in between scenarios, you may replace these boons with the Core or Curse versions. (Card names must match exactly, though differences in spacing such as Short Sword and Shortsword are allowed.) Do not take cards from the vault for this—you must bring your own copies. If the level of the Core or Curse card is higher than your tier, you can’t replace that card until you’re allowed to put cards of that level into your deck.

Venture-Agent, Online—ACG aka MorkXII

Thanks, Vic!

1/5

Has the Season of the Righteous reward for Adventure 2 been addressed yet or will it be addressed in guide 6.2? Sorry for bothering on it but my husband and I wanted to play it and see if we can beat it with the new rules for fun. =)

Spoiler:
Each character gains skill feats corresponding to all medals gained on the troop Knights of Kenabres (as noted on your Chronicle sheet).

Silver Crusade 2/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 aka cartmanbeck

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Katlyn99 wrote:

Has the Season of the Righteous reward for Adventure 2 been addressed yet or will it be addressed in guide 6.2? Sorry for bothering on it but my husband and I wanted to play it and see if we can beat it with the new rules for fun. =)

** spoiler omitted **

For this one, I'd like to suggest that a special rule for Season of the RIghteous be created. Something like this:

new rule? wrote:


When playing any scenario during Season of the Righteous, you gain temporary bonuses to your skills corresponding to each medal you earned on the troop Knights of Kenabres.

Or something like that. SotRighteous characters really REALLY need those bonuses, I think.

Lone Shark Games

Katlyn99 wrote:
Has the Season of the Righteous reward for Adventure 2 been addressed yet or will it be addressed in guide 6.2? Sorry for bothering on it but my husband and I wanted to play it and see if we can beat it with the new rules for fun. =)

Sorry, I tested out a couple options and didn't like the results from those, so I put it on the backburner for a couple weeks to percolate while I worked on some other more timely things.

That said, what I'll likely do:

One of these two:
For the rest of the Adventure Path, if you have an unchecked skill feat in any skill corresponding to a medal gained on the troop Knights of Kenabres (as noted on your Chronicle sheet), you may treat one skill feat as checked.

For the rest of the Adventure Path, when you fail a check using a skill corresponding to a medal gained on the troop Knights of Kenabres (as noted on your Chronicle sheet), you may cross out that medal to reroll any number of dice on the check.

If folks have strong opinions on those, let me know. One is passive, but largely replicates the effect inside the campaign, and the other requires more memory, but could save your bacon a couple times.

Re: Tyler Ninja
Nah, SotR characters are fine. At least as far as the impact of this reward goes. It's mostly just "some day a couple stats you don't really use gets a +1" (cause you max out your actually used stats)

1/5

Keith Richmond wrote:


Re: Tyler Ninja
Nah, SotR characters are fine. At least as far as the impact of this reward goes. It's mostly just "some day a couple stats you don't really use gets a +1" (cause you max out your actually used stats)

I like to play jack-of-all-trades characters and DON'T max out a couple stats. I like to spread the skill points around. I don't think it can be assumed that stats a character doesn't use alot would be the only ones affected....

Silver Crusade 2/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 aka cartmanbeck

Katlyn99 wrote:
Keith Richmond wrote:


Re: Tyler Ninja
Nah, SotR characters are fine. At least as far as the impact of this reward goes. It's mostly just "some day a couple stats you don't really use gets a +1" (cause you max out your actually used stats)
I like to play jack-of-all-trades characters and DON'T max out a couple stats. I like to spread the skill points around. I don't think it can be assumed that stats a character doesn't use alot would be the only ones affected....

Agreed :)

Silver Crusade 5/5 ⦵⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Indiana—Southern aka CanisDirus

So I guess printing up and binding guide v6.1 in bright, glossy color may have been a little bit premature? ^^;

Regardless, my players and I who have been enthusiasts of the card game since season of the shackles (still the local favorite) are excited with all the new activity!


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Tyler Beck wrote:
Katlyn99 wrote:
Keith Richmond wrote:


Re: Tyler Ninja
Nah, SotR characters are fine. At least as far as the impact of this reward goes. It's mostly just "some day a couple stats you don't really use gets a +1" (cause you max out your actually used stats)
I like to play jack-of-all-trades characters and DON'T max out a couple stats. I like to spread the skill points around. I don't think it can be assumed that stats a character doesn't use alot would be the only ones affected....
Agreed :)

Agreed in principle. My current SotR Ukuja, for example, is a Mythic Heirophant. Wisdom is his core skill, used in combat (Survival weapons) and spellcasting both, however...

He has Dexterity-based skills (further modified by his cohort), has a Constitution-based skill (from one of his more potent Cohorts), and Mythic Heirophant is adding his Mythic Charges to his 1d4 Charisma. The extra +1 skill feat in Charisma is particularly relevant since his dice is so small, and he generally either autopasses checks to acquire allies due to his high static modifiers or is unable to pass (without expending charges).

I do, however, see where Keith is coming from that the smattering of +1s is rather... low-impact in a set where you get Mythic Paths and the difficulty of the hard checks are so high. But it still feels really bad as a player to have 3 skill feats stripped off of me (as has been done), perhaps because I've been conditioned to see feat rewards as among the most valuable of rewards that can be given out in any PACG adventure.

Anyway, for what it's worth, I like the first option, which replicates the existing effect perfectly.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Katlyn99 wrote:
Has the Season of the Righteous reward for Adventure 2 been addressed yet or will it be addressed in guide 6.2?

If it isn't obvious from Keith's response, that will be dealt with by changing the reward itself, not the Guide.

The only discussion that's currently pending for 6.2 is a possible adjustment to how rewards that give you random draws are handled.

Is there anything else we should be considering?


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Vic Wertz wrote:
Is there anything else we should be considering?

With the possibility of exchanging Core cards and thus the possibility of having Level 0 cards in the starting deck, can we streamline the hierarchy a bit?

(This will also be a problem with future class deck like products)

Venture-Agent, Online—ACG aka MorkXII

The new example for Taking One for The Team in 6.1 mentions "advancing to Tier 7" (top of page 8), which isn't a thing.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

zeroth_hour2 wrote:
With the possibility of exchanging Core cards and thus the possibility of having Level 0 cards in the starting deck, can we streamline the hierarchy a bit?

Can you provide specific suggestions?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Mark Koopman wrote:
The new example for Taking One for The Team in 6.1 mentions "advancing to Tier 7" (top of page 8), which isn't a thing.

Wow. Not sure how that one happened... Fixing.


Vic Wertz wrote:
zeroth_hour2 wrote:
With the possibility of exchanging Core cards and thus the possibility of having Level 0 cards in the starting deck, can we streamline the hierarchy a bit?
Can you provide specific suggestions?

I think removing the Basic requirement is enough. The Basic trait doesn't exist post-Core, and honestly having a 0 deck upgrade (due to lacking 1s in the pool) is a mediocre consolation prize in my experience anyway, so the proposal:

"When this guide tells you to choose cards from your Class
Deck box using the Hierarchy, first set aside all of the cards
that are already in use as part of your deck, then choose from
your unused cards starting at the top of this list and working
your way down until you have chosen enough cards.
1. Use cards that have the set indicator B and the Basic trait.
2.
1. Use any level 0 cards that have the set indicator B without the Basic trait.
3. Use cards that have the set indicator 1 and the Basic trait.
4.
2. Use any level 1 cards that have the set indicator 1 without the Basic trait.

etc.

..."

There could be a concern about blessings, and the wording above can be simplified further, but people I teach OP to already have a lot of things to remember even when they've played the game before - I would rather them not have to be like "is it B or Basic or what?" and just be like "0, or if there's a letter on the top right corner that's also a 0."

Lone Shark Games

Hmm. At the moment it feels like B non-basics provide a useful upgrade option for older class decks (when you acquire a level 0 boon), and many of the B non-basic cards would be level 1 if translated.

So, characters would start stronger and get fewer upgrades. New characters would also require reading more cards to choose your options. After a few sessions, it'd largely shake out, though.

I feel ambivalent on that one.

1/5

I agree that it would be a little easier when teaching new people but we have been teaching them about B,C,P and basic since the game came out so I personally don't think it makes much difference. I agree with Keith as well that changing this would make us start stronger with fewer upgrades. There are also a number of cards in the class decks that would probably end up "dead" as no one would want to take them unless required to as well. As it currently is, I still feel excited to get a 0 card upgrade my first few sessions. Not as excited as a 1 of course, but it doesn't feel like we won nothing if we only got 0s for the first couple of games.

For Guide 6.2 can there be some clarification on whether or not you can replace a B basic card with a Core/Curse 1 card for the first scenario? There has been some question/confusion on that.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Katlyn99 wrote:
For Guide 6.2 can there be some clarification on whether or not you can replace a B basic card with a Core/Curse 1 card for the first scenario? There has been some question/confusion on that.

I'm not completely sure what you mean here... but I see the Core/Curse replacement rules say you may swap cards "in between scenarios." Are you suggesting that some people think that means they have to finish their first scenario before that kicks in? If so, that's not the intent; we just don't want people swapping cards during play. (And really, that's true for all of the deck adjustments allowed by that section of the Guide.) Will adjust.

If you meant something else, can you be specific?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Keith Richmond wrote:
...many of the B non-basic cards would be level 1 if translated.

I agree with that. If we were to change something to simplify the Hierarchy, I'd suggest treating Basic Bs as 0 and non-Basic Bs as 1, then just going Levels 0 through 6.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
Katlyn99 wrote:
For Guide 6.2 can there be some clarification on whether or not you can replace a B basic card with a Core/Curse 1 card for the first scenario? There has been some question/confusion on that.

I'm not completely sure what you mean here... but I see the Core/Curse replacement rules say you may swap cards "in between scenarios." Are you suggesting that some people think that means they have to finish their first scenario before that kicks in? If so, that's not the intent; we just don't want people swapping cards during play. (And really, that's true for all of the deck adjustments allowed by that section of the Guide.) Will adjust.

If you meant something else, can you be specific?

The question that I think was being asked (because I've seen the question asked on multiple tables) is whether you can really "cheat" in level 1 Core/Curse cards into your starting deck because their pre-Core equivalent is Basic.

A great example of this is the Standard Bearer ally, but it's not the only example. A lot of players seem to find it unintuitive - or think that they're somehow cheating - if they replace a basic pre-Core card with a Level 1 post-Core card in their very starting deck.

(It seems clear to me that, yes, you can replace your starting cards with any same-named level 0 or 1 Core/Curse boon immediately, incidentally. If a card is in your deck when you replace it, then the replacement card also ends up in your deck.)


Vic Wertz wrote:
I'm not completely sure what you mean here... but I see the Core/Curse replacement rules say you may swap cards "in between scenarios." Are you suggesting that some people think that means they have to finish their first scenario before that kicks in?

I've been at least one table where the rule was interpreted this way.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
Keith Richmond wrote:
...many of the B non-basic cards would be level 1 if translated.
I agree with that. If we were to change something to simplify the Hierarchy, I'd suggest treating Basic Bs as 0 and non-Basic Bs as 1, then just going Levels 0 through 6.

Simplicity is always beautiful.

1/5

Yewstance wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Katlyn99 wrote:
For Guide 6.2 can there be some clarification on whether or not you can replace a B basic card with a Core/Curse 1 card for the first scenario? There has been some question/confusion on that.

I'm not completely sure what you mean here... but I see the Core/Curse replacement rules say you may swap cards "in between scenarios." Are you suggesting that some people think that means they have to finish their first scenario before that kicks in? If so, that's not the intent; we just don't want people swapping cards during play. (And really, that's true for all of the deck adjustments allowed by that section of the Guide.) Will adjust.

If you meant something else, can you be specific?

The question that I think was being asked (because I've seen the question asked on multiple tables) is whether you can really "cheat" in level 1 Core/Curse cards into your starting deck because their pre-Core equivalent is Basic.

A great example of this is the Standard Bearer ally, but it's not the only example. A lot of players seem to find it unintuitive - or think that they're somehow cheating - if they replace a basic pre-Core card with a Level 1 post-Core card in their very starting deck.

(It seems clear to me that, yes, you can replace your starting cards with any same-named level 0 or 1 Core/Curse boon immediately, incidentally. If a card is in your deck when you replace it, then the replacement card also ends up in your deck.)

Yewstance stated what I meant. I've played a couple PbP games now where it was interpreted that we could switch out for level 0 boons but not level 1 boons until we have completed the first scenario. Standard Bearer is usually the one we can't take until we have played one scenario.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Ah. The new wording says "If the level of the Core or Curse card is higher than your tier, you can’t replace that card until you’re allowed to put cards of that level into your deck." So yes, you can do that. If you think it needs to be clearer still, please suggest a wording. (However, please note that I can't add more than a few words to that column without causing a minor cascade of text flow issues.)

1/5

Vic Wertz wrote:
Ah. The new wording says "If the level of the Core or Curse card is higher than your tier, you can’t replace that card until you’re allowed to put cards of that level into your deck." So yes, you can do that. If you think it needs to be clearer still, please suggest a wording. (However, please note that I can't add more than a few words to that column without causing a minor cascade of text flow issues.)

You cannot use a Core/Curse card as a replacement until your tier is equal to or higher than the level of that card. For example when starting at Tier 1 you can take replacement cards of levels 0 or 1.

Would that be too long? If it is perhaps instead it could just be left as written and include an core/curse replacement card in the example? I think that would clear things up pretty handily if there is room for it in the column/page.

4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—St. Paul aka panpear

I had printed those reporting sheets from the guide, and if you're able to I think they could use some spacing adjustments.

Mainly, there doesn't need to be so much space to write the tier number, but there could definitely be more space to write the character numbers. With new players at 7 numbers, plus 4 for the card game character number, it can need a lot of room with the smaller height available.

In addition, shifting over the top part where you write the scenario name would be nice too. Some of the fields/checkboxes don't need as much space as the more variable entries on the reporting sheet.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

I rarely get feedback on stuff like that—thanks! I'll ask for those changes.

5/5 Venture-Agent, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka Pirate Rob

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Vic Wertz wrote:
I rarely get feedback on stuff like that—thanks! I'll ask for those changes.

You could spend more time in the RP section of Organized play. We complain about the lack of space to write player numbers all the time :)

1/5

I'd love to see less black borders too. Its hard on toner usage when you are printing alot.

Venture-Agent, Online—ACG aka redeux

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I think there should be a rule that rallied supporters are AP specific and cannot be rallied into a different AP. Much like Loot has "When setting up any scenario in that adventure path," verbiage.

Say you are playing Sanctioned Curse, you cannot then use those ralliied Curse supporters while playing scenarios from season 6. Only supporters rallied during season 6 would be eligible to use during season 6 and same would need to apply to Curse.

This was initially brought up by Yewstance here


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Here I was thinking that the wording that Supporters weren't AP-specific was conscious and intentional. Incidentally, it was actually raised to me by Dinketry initially; I didn't discover it.

Personally, I think it's neat that you can use both sets of Supporters simultaneously.

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