Another Doubling Rings question! Halp!


Rules Discussion


Don't hate me, this edition giving me so many ideas but I need help to make sure they work: If you have a spiked gauntlet with say, corrosive rune. And you wield rings of doubling. Would grabbing a two handed spear transfer the rune over from the Spiked Gauntlet to the Spear?

"When you wield a melee weapon in the hand wearing the golden ring, the weapon’s fundamental runes are replicated onto any melee weapon you wield in the hand wearing the iron ring. "

"Consequently, the benefit doesn’t apply to thrown attacks or if you’re holding a weapon but not wielding it (such as holding in one hand a weapon that requires two hands to wield)."

I feel like the last sentence could have shut down two-handed weapon transfer by stating it doesn't work with two handed weapons, but it's also possible they want to keep the option open for multi-armed races in the future or via spells/items?


Corvo Spiritwind wrote:

Don't hate me, this edition giving me so many ideas but I need help to make sure they work: If you have a spiked gauntlet with say, corrosive rune. And you wield rings of doubling. Would grabbing a two handed spear transfer the rune over from the Spiked Gauntlet to the Spear?

"When you wield a melee weapon in the hand wearing the golden ring, the weapon’s fundamental runes are replicated onto any melee weapon you wield in the hand wearing the iron ring. "

"Consequently, the benefit doesn’t apply to thrown attacks or if you’re holding a weapon but not wielding it (such as holding in one hand a weapon that requires two hands to wield)."

I feel like the last sentence could have shut down two-handed weapon transfer by stating it doesn't work with two handed weapons, but it's also possible they want to keep the option open for multi-armed races in the future or via spells/items?

"Corrosive" is a property rune, not a fundamental rune. Only Potency (+1 to hit) and Striking (+1 die) are fundamental runes.

But I'll answer the question for potency/striking. It says it doesn't work with weapons you are holding but not wielding. So it seems to me that if the first ring is on your +1 striking spiked gauntlet, it would indeed work on your longspear.


lordcirth wrote:
Corvo Spiritwind wrote:

Don't hate me, this edition giving me so many ideas but I need help to make sure they work: If you have a spiked gauntlet with say, corrosive rune. And you wield rings of doubling. Would grabbing a two handed spear transfer the rune over from the Spiked Gauntlet to the Spear?

"When you wield a melee weapon in the hand wearing the golden ring, the weapon’s fundamental runes are replicated onto any melee weapon you wield in the hand wearing the iron ring. "

"Consequently, the benefit doesn’t apply to thrown attacks or if you’re holding a weapon but not wielding it (such as holding in one hand a weapon that requires two hands to wield)."

I feel like the last sentence could have shut down two-handed weapon transfer by stating it doesn't work with two handed weapons, but it's also possible they want to keep the option open for multi-armed races in the future or via spells/items?

"Corrosive" is a property rune, not a fundamental rune. Only Potency (+1 to hit) and Striking (+1 die) are fundamental runes.

But I'll answer the question for potency/striking. It says it doesn't work with weapons you are holding but not wielding. So it seems to me that if the first ring is on your +1 striking spiked gauntlet, it would indeed work on your longspear.

Ah, those come later in the greater version of the ring. Just wanted to know if the rings themselves worked with a two handed weapon in the first place. Toying with the idea of a character that uses whatever weapon he feels like.

The rings also replicate property runes from the weapon in the gold-ringed hand, so long as the weapon in the iron-ringed hand meets all the prerequisites for a given rune and is not a specific weapon. The weapon in the iron-ringed hand gains the benefits of those runes. All its own runes are suppressed.

Liberty's Edge

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If you're wearing a Gauntlet but using that hand for something else such as wielding a two-handed weapon I would follow the interpretation that you are NOT wielding the Gauntlet because of the bit in the Free-Hand trait that states "You can't attack with a free-hand weapon if you're wielding anything in that hand or otherwise using that hand."

This doesn't work, you need to be able to USE a weapon to be considered to be wielding it IMO and I would not allow this to function, otherwise all Characters would only ever need to apply the +1 and Striking Runes to the Gauntlet, then buy the Rings and BOOM you save yourself on ever having to buy another Striking or +X Rune again. I'm confident this was not the intended use for the item and would rule it as intentionally exploitative.


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Actually i would say no:

relevant rules text:

doubling rings:

"When you wield a melee weapon in the hand wearing the golden ring, the weapon’s fundamental runes are replicated onto any melee weapon you wield in the hand wearing the iron ring. "

Free-hand trait:

"Free-Hand: This weapon doesn’t take up your hand,
usually because it is built into your armor. A free-hand
weapon can’t be Disarmed. You can use the hand covered
by your free-hand weapon to wield other items, perform
manipulate actions, and so on. You can’t attack with a
free-hand weapon if you’re wielding anything in that hand
or otherwise using that hand. When you’re not wielding
anything and not otherwise using the hand, you can use
abilities that require you to have a hand free as well as those
that require you to be wielding a weapon in that hand.
Each
of your hands can have only one free‑hand weapon on it."

If you are holding a twi-handed weapon, your Gauntlet hand isn't "free", and so it isn't "wielding" the gauntlet.

It SPECIFICALLY requires your hand to be free in order to be considered as "wielding a weapon"

The doubling ring requires you to "wield" the weapon in order to transfer the enchantment.

So you cannot simultaneously wield both a two-handed weapon AND a gauntlet.


Themetricsystem wrote:

If you're wearing a Gauntlet but using that hand for something else such as wielding a two-handed weapon I would follow the interpretation that you are NOT wielding the Gauntlet because of the bit in the Free-Hand trait that states "You can't attack with a free-hand weapon if you're wielding anything in that hand or otherwise using that hand."

This doesn't work, you need to be able to USE a weapon to be considered to be wielding it IMO and I would not allow this to function, otherwise all Characters would only ever need to apply the +1 and Striking Runes to the Gauntlet, then buy the Rings and BOOM you save yourself on ever having to buy another Striking or +X Rune again. I'm confident this was not the intended use for the item and would rule it as intentionally exploitative.

Most characters will stick to one weapon and optimize it. Going for multiple weapons has never been very viable or easy with exception of that Gloom fighter archetype or that one psionic class that manifests psi blades.

As for the BOOM, that applies to every single handed weapon already. Anyone could enhance a gauntlet or a spiked/boss shield and transfer the effect over to any one handed weapon, so it's not that revolutionary or exploitative. Just looking to extend it's range of weaponry.

shroudb wrote:

When you’re not wielding

anything and not otherwise using the hand, you can use
abilities that require you to have a hand free as well as those
that require you to be wielding a weapon in that hand.

If you are holding a twi-handed weapon, your Gauntlet hand isn't "free", and so it isn't "wielding" the gauntlet.

It SPECIFICALLY requires your hand to be free in order to be considered as "wielding a weapon"

The doubling ring requires you to "wield" the weapon in order to transfer the enchantment.

So you cannot simultaneously wield both a two-handed weapon AND a gauntlet.

That's a good point. Suppose I can stick to using any one handed weapon, which will work well with a shield fighter. Any idea what weapons the gauntlet could change into with shifting, just the other gauntlet, or any one handed weapon?


Ah, good catch on "wielding" the gauntlet.


Edit. Well, that is a few ninjas...

My reasoning is because your gauntlet hand is wielding the spear, your not counted as wielding the gauntlet. That instead you would be 'holding' the gauntlet instead of 'wielding' it.

The free hand trait says that if you are wielding another weapon you can't attack with the gauntlet.

Free-hand, pg282 wrote:
...You can’t attack with a free-hand weapon if you’re wielding anything in that hand or otherwise using that hand...

While the wielding rule says the wielding a weapon means being ready to attack.

Wielding, pg272 wrote:
...When wielding an item, you’re not just carrying it around—you’re ready to use it...

So bringing us back to the start; If you are two-handing a spear you are no longer wielding the gauntlet because you can not attack with the gauntlet.

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