Mage Armour, aka the Tanky Armoured Wizard


Rules Discussion


So, I am not saying that this is RAI but I am putting forward that this is likely RAW. Mage armour seems to be worded in such a way that you can use it and gain a benefit even if you are wearing armour.

Quote:
You ward yourself with shimmering magical energy, gaining a +1 item bonus to AC and a maximum Dexterity modifier of +5. While wearing mage armor, you use your unarmored proficiency to calculate your AC.

So, I put it forth that a reasonable reading suggests that a wizard in full plate at level 15 could have the following AC bonus. (leaving out level, base and item bonuses for simplicity sake)

Armour = 6
Dex = 5
Proficiency = 4

Total = +15AC

Meaning we are back into a territory where any arcane or occult spellcaster not progressing in an armour class they picked up is actually still objectively better off wearing that armour if this is indeed the case.

Now, I think there is an argument that could be made that "you use your unarmored proficiency to calculate your AC." could mean that they want you to simply ignore the armour and treat it as if you were unarmoured. But then I find the wording of the spell to be odd.

For the record, I believe that the way it was worded was so that it could mesh with most any armour or clothes a character wore and still provide a benefit.

PS. This is just a mechanical experiment, and for a wizard to do it optimally they would probably be looking for light/medium armour rather than going for that extra 1AC from full plate.

And yes, a champion casting it on themselves would be rather amusing at level 13... Looking at ~31 without a shield. It is only a 4 point boost, but it is on top of what is already a pretty defense heavy class. :)


I don't see anywhere in the mage armor description that you ignore maximum dex from OTHER sources, like the full plate.

Mage armor's max dexterity bonus is +5
Full plate maximum dexterity is +0

If you have both, you are STILL restricted by the full plate.

Relevant rules:

mage armor:
"You ward yourself with shimmering magical energy, gaining
a +1 item bonus to AC and a maximum Dexterity modifier
of +5. While wearing mage armor, you use your unarmored
proficiency to calculate your AC."

Dex Cap from armors:
"This number is the maximum amount of your
Dexterity modifier that can apply to your AC while you
are wearing a given suit of armor."

Nothing in the Mage armor description nullifies the Dex Cap of Full plate.


shroudb wrote:

I don't see anywhere in the mage armor description that you ignore maximum dex from OTHER sources, like the full plate.

Mage armor's max dexterity bonus is +5
Full plate maximum dexterity is +0

If you have both, you are STILL restricted by the full plate.

Isn't the usual rule that specific overrides the general? Yours is a reasonable argument.

But in this case the mage armour being on would be the specific.

One states your maximum is one value, the other states your maximum is another value.


The Gleeful Grognard wrote:
shroudb wrote:

I don't see anywhere in the mage armor description that you ignore maximum dex from OTHER sources, like the full plate.

Mage armor's max dexterity bonus is +5
Full plate maximum dexterity is +0

If you have both, you are STILL restricted by the full plate.

Isn't the usual rule that specific overrides the general? Yours is a reasonable argument.

But in this case the mage armour being on would be the specific.

There is no "specific" here. Mage armor is listed EXACTLY like ALL armors in the game: With an item bonus and a Dex Cap. It isn't anything specific or relevant to the rules there.

i linked the rule above, for reference:

"This number is the maximum amount of your
Dexterity modifier that can apply to your AC while you
are wearing a given suit of armor."

THIS is the rule.

If there was a specific text in Mage armor that said "Change your Dex Cap from Armors to +5"

then yeah, it would have worked. But it says nothing of the sort.

But as it stands now, you are wearing "2 armors" one with a dex cap of +5 and one with a dex cap of +0.

Simply put:

You can get the exact same "result" as yours by wearing simultaneously both a padded armor and a Full plate. They have different Dex caps exactly like mage armor have different Dex cap.


The way I read it, Mage Armor is an armor, and thus can't be cast if you already have an armor (or you have to choose one or the other).
That's why they say you use your unarmored proficiency and gives a max dex bonus to AC, because, well, it's an armor :)
They just forgot to say its base armor bonus is +0, because it was kind of redundant with the AC item bonus.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Item bonuses don't stack


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

So, you're trying to read that both item bonuses apply (thus you take the higher) but both max DEX ratings don't apply? I'm not actually sure how you can describe that as a "reasonable reading".


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
The Gleeful Grognard wrote:

Isn't the usual rule that specific overrides the general? Yours is a reasonable argument.

The would only apply if the rules contradicted. However the limitation from plate and the limitation from mage armor are concurrent.

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