How can you become “Unnoticed”?


Rules Discussion

1 to 50 of 51 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

Not seeing any way to achieve the condition of “unnoticed within the mechanics of the game. The highest level you can achieve by stealth seems to be “undetected”.

How do you achieve this condition within the rules?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

After a creature has "noticed" you?

In encounter mode?

I don't think you can.

I mean, even if you are the master of stealth, able to go invisible at the blink of the eye, once someone notices you he kinda knows that you exist.

He may have no clue WHERE you are (undetected) but he knows you exist.

It would take some major memory manipulation to be able to go from noticed to unnoticed in a short time frame of an encounter.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

Within the rules the maximum effect you can achieve with the Sneak action is “undetected”. Avoid Notice in exploration mode acts like the Sneak action as per the last sentence. Doesn’t appear to be a way to be unnoticed.


Yes, it's not possible to go from noticed to unnoticed during an encounter.


The ShadowShackleton wrote:
Within the rules the maximum effect you can achieve with the Sneak action is “undetected”. Avoid Notice in exploration mode acts like the Sneak action as per the last sentence. Doesn’t appear to be a way to be unnoticed.

again, the unnoticed is not a combat condition.

it's purely narrative:

someone doesn't even know you exist.

If he does know you exist, and he simply can't see you/find you, then you're undetected

"If you are unnoticed by a creature, that creature has no
idea you are present at all"

"If a creature is undetected,
that doesn’t necessarily mean you’re unaware of its
presence—you might suspect an undetected creature is in
the room with you, even though you’re unable to find its
space. The unnoticed condition covers creatures you’re
entirely unaware of."

"If you have no idea a creature is even present, that
creature is unnoticed by you"

The last quote is how you "Gain" this condition.


shroudb wrote:
It would take some major memory manipulation to be able to go from noticed to unnoticed in a short time frame of an encounter.

Or time travel :)

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

I think folks are misunderstanding me. There does not appear to be a way to be “unnoticed” at any point within the rules. I am not taking about changing to unnoticed after you have already been seen.


The ShadowShackleton wrote:
I think folks are misunderstanding me. There does not appear to be a way to be “unnoticed” at any point within the rules. I am not taking about changing to unnoticed after you have already been seen.

sure there is:

"If you have no idea a creature is even present, that
creature is unnoticed by you""

That's how you become "unnoticed" if someone is not aware you are present.

it's not an "action" to somehow become unnoticed, it's a natural state.

It's the same as there is no action to go "alive". You kinda... are. Until you die. And then get raised as an undead minion.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
shroudb wrote:
The ShadowShackleton wrote:
Within the rules the maximum effect you can achieve with the Sneak action is “undetected”. Avoid Notice in exploration mode acts like the Sneak action as per the last sentence. Doesn’t appear to be a way to be unnoticed.

again, the unnoticed is not a combat condition.

it's purely narrative:

someone doesn't even know you exist.

If he does know you exist, and he simply can't see you/find you, then you're undetected

"If you are unnoticed by a creature, that creature has no
idea you are present at all"

"If a creature is undetected,
that doesn’t necessarily mean you’re unaware of its
presence—you might suspect an undetected creature is in
the room with you, even though you’re unable to find its
space. The unnoticed condition covers creatures you’re
entirely unaware of."

"If you have no idea a creature is even present, that
creature is unnoticed by you"

The last quote is how you "Gain" this condition.

This is the best understanding of what I was after but there appears to be no rules basis for adjudicating that. If you avoid notice or hide in or out of combat it is impossible to be unnoticed.

So I guess it is reserved for situations of GM fiat outside the rules? Ok with that answer but hard to see a situation where it would apply.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
shroudb wrote:
The ShadowShackleton wrote:
I think folks are misunderstanding me. There does not appear to be a way to be “unnoticed” at any point within the rules. I am not taking about changing to unnoticed after you have already been seen.

sure there is:

"If you have no idea a creature is even present, that
creature is unnoticed by you""

That's how you become "unnoticed" if someone is not aware you exist.

it's not an "action" to somehow become unnoticed, it's a natural state.

I am not trying to be argumentative or facetious but I can’t think of an example where that applies. Even if you are invisible you have to make a Stealth check and the best you can get is “undetected”.


The ShadowShackleton wrote:
shroudb wrote:
The ShadowShackleton wrote:
Within the rules the maximum effect you can achieve with the Sneak action is “undetected”. Avoid Notice in exploration mode acts like the Sneak action as per the last sentence. Doesn’t appear to be a way to be unnoticed.

again, the unnoticed is not a combat condition.

it's purely narrative:

someone doesn't even know you exist.

If he does know you exist, and he simply can't see you/find you, then you're undetected

"If you are unnoticed by a creature, that creature has no
idea you are present at all"

"If a creature is undetected,
that doesn’t necessarily mean you’re unaware of its
presence—you might suspect an undetected creature is in
the room with you, even though you’re unable to find its
space. The unnoticed condition covers creatures you’re
entirely unaware of."

"If you have no idea a creature is even present, that
creature is unnoticed by you"

The last quote is how you "Gain" this condition.

This is the best understanding of what I was after but there appears to be no rules basis for adjudicating that. If you avoid notice or hide in or out of combat it is impossible to be unnoticed.

So I guess it is reserved for situations of GM fiat outside the rules? Ok with that answer but hard to see a situation where it would apply.

It's not really GM fiat either.

Again, it's a natural state:

You are unnoticed until you become noticed.


The ShadowShackleton wrote:
shroudb wrote:
The ShadowShackleton wrote:
I think folks are misunderstanding me. There does not appear to be a way to be “unnoticed” at any point within the rules. I am not taking about changing to unnoticed after you have already been seen.

sure there is:

"If you have no idea a creature is even present, that
creature is unnoticed by you""

That's how you become "unnoticed" if someone is not aware you exist.

it's not an "action" to somehow become unnoticed, it's a natural state.

I am not trying to be argumentative or facetious but I can’t think of an example where that applies. Even if you are invisible you have to make a Stealth check and the best you can get is “undetected”.

you are sleeping in your house.

a random burglar goes "oh jolly, let's rob this house"

You are both unnoticed by each other, no one knows that the other is present.

Sneak doesn't have an unnoticed clause because you may be sneaking, but people may still be aware of you:

Someone raised an alram that there're intruders in the cave. The guards are on alert, they can't see you/find you, but they KNOW someone is (probably) here because their pal over there raised an alarm that this is so.

It has NOTHING to do with stealth, but everything to do with awareness of the present condition.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

Ok right but as soon as the burglar enters your room and an encounter begins that changes. Seems like an unnecessary condition and it is causing a lot of rules confusion with regard to initiative and stealth.

Characters are also breathing but we don’t need a condition of “breathing”, you know, so I think people are naturally but incorrectly assuming it has a game impact.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
The ShadowShackleton wrote:

Ok right but as soon as the burglar enters your room and an encounter begins that changes. Seems like an unnecessary condition and it is causing a lot of rules confusion with regard to initiative and stealth.

Characters are also breathing but we don’t need a condition of “breathing”, you know, so I think people are naturally but incorrectly assuming it has a game impact.

it is referenced in the condition that it really is only relevant for "This condition usually matters

for abilities that can be used only against targets totally
unaware of your presence."

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

I haven’t yet found one of those abilities or effects but I am no expert. So maybe it is just future proofing?

So but it, but it has really made a mess of many people’s understanding of how initiative works.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

Thanks though Shroud. I believe you may well be right. It kind of feels like something they had planned to do more with but then backed away from. The important thing for people to understand is that it plays no part in exploration or encounter mode and plays no part in the initiative process.

Totally fine with that but it does seem to be unclear what purpose it serves at this point in the games evolution.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

i can totally see it being a relevant condition for "psychics" in the future personally.

a condition that basically either affects someone without even taking notice that he is being affected by something, or that messes up with people's minds akin to "i could have sworn there was someone there" and etc


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

It's entirely possible to be unnoticed during an encounter. You simply begin that way (typically by having someone else begin the encounter) and don't do anything to compromise it.

Once compromised, you can't really get it back though.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

Ravingdork Can you give me a specific example of where that would apply?

Everyone rolls initiative and depending on whether anyone is actively doing stealth, you are either Undetected, Hidden or Observed.

Can’t see how the unnoticed condition could mechanically occur in an encounter.


The ShadowShackleton wrote:

Ravingdork Can you give me a specific example of where that would apply?

Everyone rolls initiative and depending on whether anyone is actively doing stealth, you are either Undetected, Hidden or Observed.

Can’t see how the unnoticed condition could mechanically occur in an encounter.

being undetected and being unnoticed is not mutually exclusive:

A creature that is undetected
might also be unnoticed.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

This is why I bring it up. It does not appear to be a mechanical option as the only way you are not observed seems to be if you roll stealth for initiative.

I suppose you could be completely hidden behind a wall or in another room. That could be the only situation they meant it to apply to.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
shroudb wrote:
The ShadowShackleton wrote:

Ravingdork Can you give me a specific example of where that would apply?

Everyone rolls initiative and depending on whether anyone is actively doing stealth, you are either Undetected, Hidden or Observed.

Can’t see how the unnoticed condition could mechanically occur in an encounter.

being undetected and being unnoticed is not mutually exclusive:

A creature that is undetected
might also be unnoticed.

Certainly possible but doesn’t seem to have a lot of rules support.

The definition of undetected seems to contradict that. I don’t have the rules handy to quote.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Avoid Notice can let you be unnoticed — it’s even in the name. If you’re not noticed you’re unnoticed. The problem is you’re assuming that if encounter mode is being used everyone must have noticed everyone else or at least something and/or that if two parties are near each other that you need to use encounter mode. You need to check if either side notices the other first.


The ShadowShackleton wrote:
shroudb wrote:
The ShadowShackleton wrote:

Ravingdork Can you give me a specific example of where that would apply?

Everyone rolls initiative and depending on whether anyone is actively doing stealth, you are either Undetected, Hidden or Observed.

Can’t see how the unnoticed condition could mechanically occur in an encounter.

being undetected and being unnoticed is not mutually exclusive:

A creature that is undetected
might also be unnoticed.

Certainly possible but doesn’t seem to have a lot of rules support.

The definition of undetected seems to contradict that. I don’t have the rules handy to quote.

no, what i said was a direct Quote from the book.

It's right there on the Unnoticed condition description:

"Unnoticed
If you have no idea a creature is even present, that
creature is unnoticed by you. A creature that is undetected
might also be unnoticed.
This condition usually matters
for abilities that can be used only against targets totally
unaware of your presence."

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
shroudb wrote:
The ShadowShackleton wrote:
shroudb wrote:
The ShadowShackleton wrote:

Ravingdork Can you give me a specific example of where that would apply?

Everyone rolls initiative and depending on whether anyone is actively doing stealth, you are either Undetected, Hidden or Observed.

Can’t see how the unnoticed condition could mechanically occur in an encounter.

being undetected and being unnoticed is not mutually exclusive:

A creature that is undetected
might also be unnoticed.

Certainly possible but doesn’t seem to have a lot of rules support.

The definition of undetected seems to contradict that. I don’t have the rules handy to quote.

no, what i said was a direct Quote from the book.

It's right there on the Unnoticed condition description:

"Unnoticed
If you have no idea a creature is even present, that
creature is unnoticed by you. A creature that is undetected
might also be unnoticed.
This condition usually matters
for abilities that can be used only against targets totally
unaware of your presence."

Ah ok fantastic! I am happy to have it the way you have shown and I was concerned that they did not back that up in the rules as there is absolutely no mention of being unnoticed in Stealth. Still confusing as to how to adjudicate that. I guess it is circumstantial and up to the GM?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
Tiene wrote:
Avoid Notice can let you be unnoticed — it’s even in the name. If you’re not noticed you’re unnoticed. The problem is you’re assuming that if encounter mode is being used everyone must have noticed everyone else or at least something and/or that if two parties are near each other that you need to use encounter mode. You need to check if either side notices the other first.

Here is the confusing part:

"If you’re Avoiding Notice at the start of an encounter, you usually roll a Stealth check instead of a Perception check both to determine your initiative and to see if the enemies notice you (based on their Perception DCs, as normal for Sneak, regardless of their initiative check results)."

Note the words "as normal for Sneak"

Sneak:

"Success You’re undetected by the creature during your movement and remain undetected by the creature at the end of it."

Does not indicate you are Unnoticed, just undetected which is its own different condition.

Granted it doesn't preclude you from also being Unnoticed as Shroud pointed out, but there is no indication of how to determine if this is the case, and it makes a big difference to how initiative plays out in an ambush.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

See the Ambushes Stealth and Initiative thread if you want to see how convoluted and confusing it can get.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
Tiene wrote:
Avoid Notice can let you be unnoticed — it’s even in the name. If you’re not noticed you’re unnoticed. The problem is you’re assuming that if encounter mode is being used everyone must have noticed everyone else or at least something and/or that if two parties are near each other that you need to use encounter mode. You need to check if either side notices the other first.

Also I think the assumption that you do a check before initiative to see if either side notices the other is an incorrect assumption based on PF1.

See this from Avoiding Notice:

"you usually roll a Stealth check instead of a Perception check both to determine your initiative and to see if the enemies notice you"

IF the enemies notice you is only determined when initiative begins.


I raised the question in my own thread about stealth and scent because I too could not find rules and/or a clear definition about status "unnoticed"?

Im my opinion this is a clear omission in the CRB. In the description for stealth and senses 3 conditions and the transition in between are very clearly listed, observed, hidden and undetected, however there is no detailed explaination about unnoticed.

How do you enter this state? How do you lose this state? How do you handle this state?

Again this seems to relate to the transition in between exploration mode and encounter mode (and vice versa) and to be honest the CRB does not do a great job in explaining these.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

If they haven't noticed you and you roll above their perception DC on your stealth-initiative check, you are unnoticed and undetected.

If you roll below their perception DC on your stealth-initiative check, you're not unnoticed or undetected.

What is confusing about it, specifically?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ngodrup wrote:

If they haven't noticed you and you roll above their perception DC on your stealth-initiative check, you are unnoticed and undetected.

If you roll below their perception DC on your stealth-initiative check, you're not unnoticed or undetected.

What is confusing about it, specifically?

Though I truely think it works that way please point out the paragraph in the CRB that states it does. It's not in the stealth rules, so much is for sure...


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Ubertron_X wrote:


How do you enter this state? How do you lose this state? How do you handle this state?

1) you're automatically in this state if no one has noticed you

2) if you are seen/heard/otherwise sensed, i.e., you are not avoiding notice OR you are avoiding notice but your stealth check is below their perception DC

3) as undetected, but without the NPCs/creatures/whoever even having the faintest idea you're there

If you haven't been noticed, you're unnoticed and undetected. If you become noticed, and then succeed at a stealth, you can become undetected again, but you can't become unnoticed again.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

Ngodrup- That would make sense but the rules do not make it clear, though it is a perfectly valid way for them to clarify it by stating it as you have. Nowhere do the rules state what you have said.

In fact they simply say you are undetected and make no mention of unnoticed.

It might well be true, but currently that is not what the rules say and if what you say is true, what is the difference between those two conditions?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Undetected: they know you're around but not exactly where

Unnoticed: they don't even know you're around

I feel like it's explained pretty well on page 466-467


My personal opinion on this matter:

* Unnoticed and not using stealth => auto-detection by vague senses already, however at a maximum you become undetected
* Unnoticed using stealth beating perception DC => seek action might bring status to hidden or observed (same as for undeteced), else you stay unnoticed

* Undetected and not using stealth => auto-detection by imprecise senses already, however at a maximum you become hidden
* Undeteced using stealth beating perception DC => seek action might bring status to hidden or observed, else you stay undeteced

* Hidden and not using stealth => auto-detection by precise Senses, change status to observed
* Hidden and using stealth beating perception DC => seek action might bring status to observed, else you stay hidden

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

I agree that the best way to work is as Ubertron describes. They use specific language for a reason in this ruleset so it is confusing when they then fail to use their own language and conditions to properly describe how something works.

At no point do they say you have the Unnoticed condition if you successfully stealth, only that you are Undetected.

At no point do they say you have the Unnoticed condition if you successfully Avoid Notice, though it is easy to interpret it that way (perhaps correctly).

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
The ShadowShackleton wrote:

"If you’re Avoiding Notice at the start of an encounter, you usually roll a Stealth check instead of a Perception check both to determine your initiative and to see if the enemies notice you (based on their Perception DCs, as normal for Sneak, regardless of their initiative check results)."

Note the words "as normal for Sneak"

I read that as using the Perception DC like you would for Sneak, not that the results are those from Sneak. I.e., you roll against Perception DC like you would while sneaking, and success means they don’t notice you.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Ubertron_X wrote:
Ngodrup wrote:

If they haven't noticed you and you roll above their perception DC on your stealth-initiative check, you are unnoticed and undetected.

If you roll below their perception DC on your stealth-initiative check, you're not unnoticed or undetected.

What is confusing about it, specifically?

Though I truely think it works that way please point out the paragraph in the CRB that states it does. It's not in the stealth rules, so much is for sure...

Okay...

Page 467 wrote:

Unnoticed

If you have no idea a creature is even present, that creature is unnoticed by you.

Combined with

Page 497 wrote:

Avoid Notice

EXPLORATION
You attempt a Stealth check to avoid notice while traveling at half speed. If you have the Swift Sneak feat, you can move at full Speed rather than half, but you still can’t use another exploration activity while you do so. If you have the Legendary Sneak feat, you can move at full Speed and use a second exploration activity. If you’re Avoiding Notice at the start of an encounter, you usually roll a Stealth check instead of a Perception check both to determine your initiative and to see if the enemies notice you (based on their Perception DCs, as normal for Sneak, regardless of their initiative check results).

So... If they have no idea you're present, you're Unnoticed. If you successfully Avoid Notice, they don't detect you. Therefore, if they don't know you're there and you successfully Avoid Notice, you're Unnoticed, as well as undetected.

I feel like we largely agree on the implementation, but I don't see why you don't think it's explained in the book. It's right there.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
TomParker wrote:
The ShadowShackleton wrote:

"If you’re Avoiding Notice at the start of an encounter, you usually roll a Stealth check instead of a Perception check both to determine your initiative and to see if the enemies notice you (based on their Perception DCs, as normal for Sneak, regardless of their initiative check results)."

Note the words "as normal for Sneak"

I read that as using the Perception DC like you would for Sneak, not that the results are those from Sneak. I.e., you roll against Perception DC like you would while sneaking, and success means they don’t notice you.

Yeah, you roll one Stealth check which is used as your initiative, and also compared to other combatants Perception DCs to see if they've perceived you or not


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Ubertron_X wrote:


* Unnoticed using stealth beating perception DC => seek action might bring status to hidden or observed (same as for undeteced), else you stay unnoticed

I agree with most of your breakdown here but this bit stood out to me - I would seriously question any GM getting any NPC or creature to use a Seek action in the direction of an Unnoticed PC. They'd have no reason to do that in basically any situation. They have absolutely no idea the PC is there, so they should not be seeking that area for them specifically - that's for if they're undetected but noticed and they're trying to find them

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
TomParker wrote:
The ShadowShackleton wrote:

"If you’re Avoiding Notice at the start of an encounter, you usually roll a Stealth check instead of a Perception check both to determine your initiative and to see if the enemies notice you (based on their Perception DCs, as normal for Sneak, regardless of their initiative check results)."

Note the words "as normal for Sneak"

I read that as using the Perception DC like you would for Sneak, not that the results are those from Sneak. I.e., you roll against Perception DC like you would while sneaking, and success means they don’t notice you.

If that is the case, it answers a lot of the confusion. Not at all clearly stated.

If that ends up being the correct interpretation, you win the prize for bringing the most clarity to the situation. If they had simply used their own terms and said "You remain Unnoticed" there would be no confusion.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Ngodrup wrote:
I feel like we largely agree on the implementation, but I don't see why you don't think it's explained in the book. It's right there.

Well I think much of the confusion comes from the fact that stealth is explained in brutal detail (primarily for encounter mode as far as I can see), i.e. how to transition from one status' to another, how to remove each status etc, however "unnoticed" seems to be a condition that is a) used for both exploration and encounter modes and/or b) somewhat dependant on GM decision/ruling (he has the final say if monsters or characters really don't have an idea that there could be someone around).

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

If you look in the Ambushes, Stealth and Initiative thread most people are interpreting initiative being triggered as everyone having a vague sense someone else is there and something is happening.

Otherwise it is possible for you to go first despite the fact that you have no idea anyone is there.

That is being used as the justification for why people are Undetected rather than Unnoticed once an encounter begins.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
Ubertron_X wrote:
Ngodrup wrote:
I feel like we largely agree on the implementation, but I don't see why you don't think it's explained in the book. It's right there.
Well I think much of the confusion comes from the fact that stealth is explained in brutal detail (primarily for encounter mode as far as I can see), i.e. how to transition from one status' to another, how to remove each status etc, however "unnoticed" seems to be a condition that is a) used for both exploration and encounter modes and/or b) somewhat dependant on GM decision/ruling (he has the final say if monsters or characters really don't have an idea that there could be someone around).

I agree 100%


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Ngodrup wrote:
I agree with most of your breakdown here but this bit stood out to me - I would seriously question any GM getting any NPC or creature to use a Seek action in the direction of an Unnoticed PC. They'd have no reason to do that in basically any situation. They have absolutely no idea the PC is there, so they should not be seeking that area for them specifically - that's for if they're undetected but noticed and they're trying to find them

Always remember: Just because you don't see it doesn't mean they aren't after you! :P


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Ubertron_X wrote:
Ngodrup wrote:
I agree with most of your breakdown here but this bit stood out to me - I would seriously question any GM getting any NPC or creature to use a Seek action in the direction of an Unnoticed PC. They'd have no reason to do that in basically any situation. They have absolutely no idea the PC is there, so they should not be seeking that area for them specifically - that's for if they're undetected but noticed and they're trying to find them
Always remember: Just because you don't see it doesn't mean they aren't after you! :P

:'D

Only players should be that paranoid! Us GMs must pretend like we don't constantly have our little guys viciously murdered! :P


Ngodrup wrote:
Ubertron_X wrote:
Ngodrup wrote:
I agree with most of your breakdown here but this bit stood out to me - I would seriously question any GM getting any NPC or creature to use a Seek action in the direction of an Unnoticed PC. They'd have no reason to do that in basically any situation. They have absolutely no idea the PC is there, so they should not be seeking that area for them specifically - that's for if they're undetected but noticed and they're trying to find them
Always remember: Just because you don't see it doesn't mean they aren't after you! :P

:'D

Only players should be that paranoid! Us GMs must pretend like we don't constantly have our little guys viciously murdered! :P

And don't forget that there might be valid reasons to conduct a seek action even if you might not have any concrete reason to do so. For example, taking caution comes to mind.

Assume that you are traversing an outdoors environment and among other features there is a large rock. Even if you decribe the scenery as neutral as possible any player could just jump to conclusions and reckon that this might be the ideal spot to hide behind and prepare an ambush and he thus declares that his character will take a second look.

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

Yeah or if you come across an enemy who is already looking for you, like the Ringwraith looking for Frodo, for example.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The only way I can think of to become Unnoticed might be if you can somehow convince your enemies that you teleported away when in fact you simply became undetectable by them.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

Sigh. Wishing I worded the thread title a little more carefully.

1 to 50 of 51 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Rules Discussion / How can you become “Unnoticed”? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.