Familiar Communication


Rules Discussion


The standard text for familiars is that it can communicate empathically with you to a range of 1 mile, sharing emotions. The question is, how much information is this?

For example, if Quoth, the hypothetical raven familiar, were sitting on their masters shoulder and they succeded their perception check to spot the trap and their master didn't. Do they send out a message saying watch out for the trap or do they just send out a generic danger, danger Will Robinson signal.

Also, can anyone clear up the phrasing on Cantrip Connection. Also, Also, with Familair focus, the wizard/sorcerer/druid/etc. Spends 1 action to give its familar 2 actions, so that you gain a focus point; correct?

And, on Familiars/AC/Minions/etc. Do they act when you give the command on your turn or immediately after your turn i.e. could you chain 1 action focus power, Familiar Focus to immediately regain a focus point and then another focus power or does the minion action happen at the end.


I'd assume something like "danger there", like sharing fear/anxiety/etc while looking at a particular place, no more no less.

Yes on the familiar focus, you spend 1 action, you get a Focus point.

Cantrip connection: you get 1 extra cantrip. Depending on if you're a wizard, a sorc, and etc, you get it exactly as you would from your class.

They act exactly when you spent the action for them to act. So yes, you can focus power->refocus>focus power.


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I still don't understand why they removed the ability for all familiars to just talk to you when you hit lvl 5. And why if you have a familiar like say, a spider, it randomly loses natural abilities and you can't give it anything because it was born being able to see in the dark and climb things.

F~$! I hate the familiar rules, they're such garbage now.


Myrryr wrote:

And why if you have a familiar like say, a spider, it randomly loses natural abilities and you can't give it anything because it was born being able to see in the dark and climb things.

You can't strip an animal of natural abilities to select it as a familiar. You either lock in your familiar abilities to support those natural things it already has, or you can't select it at all (without something like Improved Familiar to get extra abilities).

Spiders do not "see" in the dark, BTW.


Well, since a question on Cantrip Connection, let me add my own: can you take this more than once? It says "every time you select this ability" implying it can be picked more than once but nothing else in the familiar section hints at any of the abilities can be retaken.


Xenocrat wrote:
You can't strip an animal of natural abilities to select it as a familiar. You either lock in your familiar abilities to support those natural things it already has, or you can't select it at all (without something like Improved Familiar to get extra abilities).

James Jacobs doesn't seem to agree.

James Jacobs wrote:
Gisher wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Are stats for familiars in here anywhere? I can't seem to find them.
They aren't in the Bestiary at all. Familiars function differently in this edition; see pages 217–218 of the Core Rulebook for rules on how they're created.

I realize that, but it seems that we do still need to know the baseline stats when picking Familiar Abilities.

CRB2 wrote:
If your familiar is an animal that naturally has one of these abilities (for instance, an owl has a fly Speed), you must select that ability.

It is pretty obvious which animals have flight, but I'm not so clear on some of the other abilities like Scent.

And do they lose their natural attacks when they become Familiars? If not then we need those stats.

The rules for creating familiars are very much intended to give the familiar's owner greater flexibility.

Taking senses as an example: All familiars have low-light vision. If you want it to have scent, that needs to be one of the abilities you grant it, whether or not a "monster" version would have scent or not. You don't get scent for free.

Moving on to movement; your familiar has either a land speed of 25 or a swim speed of 25. If you pick a hawk as a familair, it makes sense that you'd choose Land speed 25, but you don't gain flight for free. "Flier" is an ability you have to select for it from the two abilities afforded you for the day.

Familiars are based on real-world animals, so the game expects us all to use that knowledge as to whether or not a familiar can fly. You COULD build an owl familiar that couldn't fly simply by choosing two other abilities (say, damage avoidance and darkvision), but thematically, that would suggest you don't really want an owl.

Familiars don't have their own attacks. In 2nd edition, they're not intended to be combat buddies; that's the role of an animal companion, not a familiar. In time, as we expand the game, we'll eventually expand familiar options as well, and that might include the option of giving them attacks, but as of the base game, familiars don't have attacks—again, because they're not intended to be combat buddies in that way.


James Jacobs also suggests you might not really be after an owl if your not giving your familiar the ability to fly. If I was playing with someone who carried their owl everywhere in a cage Harry Potter style? I'd be okay with that. If I was playing with someone who had an owl but had it "walk" with the party because the flying ability isn't optimal but for some obnoxious reason they didn't want something that wasn't an owl? I'd roll my eyes.

I wouldn't enforce sensible abilities on a player's familiar as a GM, but it'd be annoying to play with them as a player.


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John Lynch 106 wrote:

James Jacobs also suggests you might not really be after an owl if your not giving your familiar the ability to fly. If I was playing with someone who carried their owl everywhere in a cage Harry Potter style? I'd be okay with that. If I was playing with someone who had an owl but had it "walk" with the party because the flying ability isn't optimal but for some obnoxious reason they didn't want something that wasn't an owl? I'd roll my eyes.

I wouldn't enforce sensible abilities on a player's familiar as a GM, but it'd be annoying to play with them as a player.

Yes, but if you read my part of the conversation, you'll see that I wasn't arguing about flight. Making an owl without flight also seems silly to me. That's what penguins are for. ;) I agree that some common sense regarding gross physical characteristics makes for better play.

It was the other characteristics that weren't so obvious that I was wondering about. Things like scent. He made it clear that such abilities are optional regardless of whether they show up in the bestiary entries. I was specifically curious about snakes since the bestiary gives them scent, a climb speed, and a swim speed. That would seem to make them ineligible as familiars (without some extra feats) despite the fact that they are listed as examples in the basic familiars rules. And other common types of animals weren't in the bestiary so I wasn't sure which special abilities they would have. It turns out that you don't need to know those details about the animals that the familiars are modeled after because you're not bound by those 'monster' examples.


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Gisher wrote:
Yes, but if you read my part of the conversation....I was specifically curious about snakes since the bestiary gives them scent, a climb speed, and a swim speed. That would seem to make them ineligible as familiars (without some extra feats) despite the fact that they are listed as examples in the basic familiars rules.

Aaaah. Right. I read the James Jacobs part only :P

Yeah. I think it basically boils down to my old group's #2 houserule: don't take the piss. (#1 was don't be a dick). But technically you could have a cat with a swim speed, a fly speed, no land speed and the ability to talk.

Technically.


John Lynch 106 wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Yes, but if you read my part of the conversation....I was specifically curious about snakes since the bestiary gives them scent, a climb speed, and a swim speed. That would seem to make them ineligible as familiars (without some extra feats) despite the fact that they are listed as examples in the basic familiars rules.

Aaaah. Right. I read the James Jacobs part only :P

Yeah. I think it basically boils down to my old group's #2 houserule: don't take the piss. (#1 was don't be a dick). But technically you could have a cat with a swim speed, a fly speed, no land speed and the ability to talk.

Technically.

Yeah. The familiars are sort of blobs of abilities rather than actual animals. Your cat has teeth and claws, but it can't bite or scratch. All of the Bestiary spiders have a climb speed and darkvision, but your 'spider' familiar could technically have different abilities. To me, though, climbing is such an iconic spider ability that I think I'd take it anyway. The radioactive ones even give that ability to humans that they bite.


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Gisher wrote:
Your cat has teeth and claws, but it can't bite or scratch.

Of course it can bite and scratch. It just won't be killing any 1st level wizards (I've never heard of anyone dying to a housecat IRL as well to be honest).

Gisher wrote:
The radioactive ones even give that ability to humans that they bite.

I see someone's been drinking too many Numerian fluids again!


Gisher wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Yes, but if you read my part of the conversation....I was specifically curious about snakes since the bestiary gives them scent, a climb speed, and a swim speed. That would seem to make them ineligible as familiars (without some extra feats) despite the fact that they are listed as examples in the basic familiars rules.

Aaaah. Right. I read the James Jacobs part only :P

Yeah. I think it basically boils down to my old group's #2 houserule: don't take the piss. (#1 was don't be a dick). But technically you could have a cat with a swim speed, a fly speed, no land speed and the ability to talk.

Technically.

Yeah. The familiars are sort of blobs of abilities rather than actual animals. Your cat has teeth and claws, but it can't bite or scratch. All of the Bestiary spiders have a climb speed and darkvision, but your 'spider' familiar could technically have different abilities. To me, though, climbing is such an iconic spider ability that I think I'd take it anyway. The radioactive ones even give that ability to humans that they bite.

Spider Fam', Spider Fam',

Does whatever a spider can.
... Except bite.
... Or spin webs...

John Lynch 106 wrote:
I see someone's been drinking too many Numerian fluids again!

That stuff can make you immortal. Chug all day everyday!


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Gisher wrote:
Yeah. The familiars are sort of blobs

Hmmm... Just making it a slime/blob actually makes the most sense. You give it fly, it grows wings, swim and it looks like a tadpole, ect. ;)

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