Order of the Saddle Challenge with Ride-By Attack


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

Howdy all! I've got a question of interpretation here.

First, full text of both relevant items:

Order of the Saddle wrote:
Challenge: Whenever an order of the saddle cavalier issues a challenge and is astride her mount, she can charge the target of her challenge—moving and attacking as if with a standard charge—and then move again as if using Ride-By Attack. Her total movement for the round can’t exceed her mounted speed. This maneuver provokes attacks of opportunity, but the cavalier gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks of opportunity while charging the target of her challenge. This bonus increases by 1 for every 4 levels the cavalier has. If the cavalier already has the Ride-By Attack feat, this dodge bonus increases by 2.
Ride-By Attack wrote:
Benefit: When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round can't exceed double your mounted speed. You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack.

So let's say I'm a cavalier/samurai with both this order and this feat. I challenge and then charge yonder pikeman (who didn't brace) with my nodachi.

As I leave the 10-foot square to close into adjacent melee, we run into an issue.

Namely: do I provoke an AoO?

Order of the Saddle says yes, but I gain a dodge bonus.
Ride-By Attack says no.

I can see three options here:

1. These are two separate actions available to me: I can either not provoke from yonder pikeman, or provoke, take a +3 or more to my AC, and hope that that's enough to waste his AoO.

2. These options are one and the same: I charge yonder pikeman, who cannot do anything in the face of a big horse, a big rider, and a big sword charging him down to kill him, but his allies get to take AoO's against me as normal (albeit with a bonus to my AC).

3. I'm missing something obvious.

Thoughts?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

LOL, the charging rules.

The challenge says: "- and then move again as if using Ride-By Attack", so I would say that it doesn't negate the AoO during the first phase of the attack but negate it when leaving. It seems to work better against enemies without a ranged weapon.
How the stack is explained in the Challenge, so I think you will suffer the eventual AoO when approaching the enemy, if it has a reach weapon.

If it hadn't the "-" before the text I cited I would say that it work exactly as Ride-By.


your missing a point. he can just use his ride by attack. that let him move double the mount speed instead of one movement speed of distance and not provoke from the pick-man.

what you need to consider is OTHER enemies aoo.
the ride by make the target of your charge unable to get any aoo. it say nothing about anyone else.
the challenge ability doesn't say the ac bonus is only against the targeted foe.
so to make it simple

with only challenge ability :
you move up to mount speed, before and after attacking. it count as charge (+2 to attack -2 to ac. lance shtick etc. must move 10 ft before attacking etc etc etc). and you provoke from anyone as normal moment, but gain bonus to ac.

with only ride by you get:
move up to double your mount speed, rest as above with one more difference in that the target of your attack doesn't get to take aoo for your movement.

both ability and feat:
(i would say decide before hand which you use). if you use ride by then use the above. if use the challenge then as above but gain extra ac for having the feat.
so ether move up to double, not provoking from main target but no bonus ac vs other people you move and provoke from. or move up to movement, provoke from every1 who threaten area you leave but get combined bonus ac for heaving both feat and ability. (so 3 + 1/4 levels)


I believe zza ni has the right of it.

You wouldn't provoke from your target. You would from others. If the target was your challenge youd gain a bonus.

Grand Lodge

So we're more or less looking at option 2?

Yuzu Fokkusupō wrote:
2. These options are one and the same: I charge yonder pikeman, who cannot do anything in the face of a big horse, a big rider, and a big sword charging him down to kill him, but his allies get to take AoO's against me as normal (albeit with a bonus to my AC).

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