Uncommon Golems in the Age of Lost Omens?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


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Golems are now uncommon it seems, was this the case before? Most adventurers I've played in 1e ran into them, they were used by ancient empires as well as wizards in several nations. Magnimar is famous for the golemworks, and there are golem forged in kaer maga and absalom as well IIRC. Seems like there is plenty of room for stories about them to diffuse across Golarion. Were golems more obscure than I thought?

Silver Crusade

Uncommon doesn’t mean obscure, that’s Rare. Uncommon means you’re probably not gonna run into them constantly.


Rysky wrote:
Uncommon doesn’t mean obscure, that’s Rare. Uncommon means you’re probably not gonna run into them constantly.

I was under the impression that commonality/rarity refers to the ease at which stories of the creature spread as well as the odds of encountering them. Otherwise, the Gogiteth being more common than then stone or iron golems implies you are more likely to run into spider monsters haunting the deepest darkest pits of the darklands than you are creatures that are manufactured in some of the biggest cities of the world.

Silver Crusade

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1) Common for their level.

2) Common for their habitat.


Also, rarity may change based on adventure. If you are in Magnimar/Nex/etc., golems are likely common instead of uncommon. Even then, you're probably more likely to run into a variety of other creatures before you run into a golem. I can't imagine there are that many of the things wandering around.

Uncommon means you are unlikely to run into a golem wandering the forest, while breaking into a noble's estate, or in an ogre's lair.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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I suspect the reason the design team labeled golems as uncommon has nothing to do with how often they appear in adventures, which has traditionally been and will continue to be often, but because their mechanics tend to make combat tough, with their high immunities to magic and damage. The "Uncommon" in this case is a flag for GMs to stop and look and consider using them in their game, since putting a golem in the game when the PCs are unprepared or ignorant about them, and without any way for them to learn about them and prepare, is kinda unfair.


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I think it makes sense being Uncommon, otherwise the centers of Golem crafting like Magnimar, Nex etc aren't really unique after all. Similarly for ancient empires like Tekritani(?) who were into Golemcrafting, Uncommon reflects that it was special knowledge, otherwise those ancient empires golemcrafting aren't really special. It makes sense a PC would be golemcrafter would want to travel to Magnimar, Nex etc in order to learm golemcrafting formulae etc. Doesn't mean they can't be found elsewhere, but the knowledge will generally flow from those centers directly or indirectly.


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If they weren't uncommon arcane casters could summon them with Summon Construct, which could be problematic in some circumstances.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Xenocrat wrote:
If they weren't uncommon arcane casters could summon them with Summon Construct, which could be problematic in some circumstances.

Now that you bring this up, I'm 99.9999999% sure this is the exact and only reason they're Uncommon.


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Rysky wrote:

1) Common for their level.

2) Common for their habitat.

I... actually feel kinda silly for not realising the habitat part. I was under the impression that commonality of monsters referred not to how common the monster is but how common stories and legends of them are, so darklands monsters would be determined by what made it to the surface rather than what abounded down there. Adding in habitat makes it make much more sense, because golems have fewer 'habitats'. Thanks! It just seemed odd that such an iconic creature to the game was default-uncommon when there were several other iconic monsters of ordinary
James Jacobs wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
If they weren't uncommon arcane casters could summon them with Summon Construct, which could be problematic in some circumstances.
Now that you bring this up, I'm 99.9999999% sure this is the exact and only reason they're Uncommon.

I'd briefly thought about that, but assumed Immunity to Magic or Summon Construct would be modified slightly to exclude summoning were that the reason, because using magic to summon something that explicitly is not affected by magic doesn't make sense anyway.

Designer

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James Jacobs wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
If they weren't uncommon arcane casters could summon them with Summon Construct, which could be problematic in some circumstances.
Now that you bring this up, I'm 99.9999999% sure this is the exact and only reason they're Uncommon.

Oddly, while there certainly were creature options on the edge where that was a big factor, golems were one of a handful of creatures that Logan had tagged as uncommon from before we wrote the new summon spells to work that way, for pretty much all the reasons you had mentioned in your first post yesterday.

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