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"Repeatable Tag (player and GM): Some adventure have the Repeatable tag, which indicates that adventure grants a Chronicle sheet and rewards each time it is played or run. However, a particular character still can’t receive credit from a given repeatable scenario more than once."
I was really hoping we had learned from PFS 1.0. I think this policy is a mistake. I would like it to be redacted. Allow people to play, period the end. Allow unlimited play, as long as its with a new character. Only allow gold and prestige, no other items off the boon sheet. Its hard enough to put tables together, please stop making it harder than it needs to be.
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Allow unlimited play, as long as its with a new character.
I'm fairly new to running society games but as I understand it, repeatable essentially means that any character can run the scenario once but the GM can run it multiple times, getting credit each time they run it.
I guess I don't fully understand the argument you are making. Care to elaborate?
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I've been happy with the PFS1e replayable rules, but that's partly/mostly because I joined the campaign during season 8 so there was a ton of content. Not to mention the list of sanctioned modules/APs.
SFS I felt a a little sad at the initial pace of published content, but they did a good job sanctioning the AP in bits, and also upped the scenario frequency once they saw the demand. It felt like SFS tried to have more replayables in the their first double-year season that PFS traditionally did, and that's probably a good model.
Generally speaking if they can stay on top of the two scenarios/mo + 1 quest, plus get APs sanctioned chapterwise rather than 6 month delayed (waiting for the final chapter), plus get modules sanctioned fast I think they will be in a good position. Would have liked there to be another short module in the works before the longer one next year, but the longer one does sound awesome.
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Allow unlimited play, as long as its with a new character.I'm fairly new to running society games but as I understand it, repeatable essentially means that any character can run the scenario once but the GM can run it multiple times, getting credit each time they run it.
I guess I don't fully understand the argument you are making. Care to elaborate?
re: GM can run it multiple times, getting credit each time they run it
Actually GMs can only get credit once as far as applying the rewards to one of their own characters but can get GM glyph credit (old GM Stars rating).http://www.organizedplayfoundation.org/encyclopedia/pathfinder-2-0-organize d-play-basics/#replaying-adventures
re: I guess I don't fully understand the argument you are making.
Since i haven't seen a reply yet, i'll offer my own thoughts which are probably pretty similar to his views.
Nightray's PFS chapter is probably similar to how my own was about a year ago.
I'll post what was a typical scenario for me.
In my case i had about 4-12 semi-active PFS players. I would schedule a game on wednesday nights.
I would post the game on meetup, "Hey guys, any requests for scenarios?" ...crickets...
"Hmm, i think 2 veterans and 3 relatively new guys (with level 2 characters) will probably show up." Lets try to find a scenario that they all haven't played and in the right tier for their characters...
"Damn, we've already played all of the current season tier 1-5..."
Level 2 is one of the hardest levels to accommodate because playing a higher level pre-gen can't be applied to them.
"Hmm, vet 1 started playing religiously after season 5 and vet 2 has been playing a lot but stopped playing during season 3 so i'll look through those..."
"Hmm, that one's dumb...but this one's cool."
I would post in the meetup, "Hey guys has anyone played this season 3.x scenario?" Vet 3 and a few newbies, "Looks good to me."
Awesome, i start prepping the scenario.
Tuesday rolls around, 3 people can't make it and drop out. Damn, not enough players.
But another guy signs up, vet 3...
"Hey, I've played that one"...here we go again.
And this doesn't take into account the fact that oftentimes i would often only have 1 or 2 confirmed players and would rely on walk in players who just showed up. Trying to find a valid scenario for everyone to play would be extremely hard, not to mention the fact that you're often running it cold.
ps. What if we only play the current season? So only 1 per 2 weeks?
This works for a little bit but you will always have mixed groups where some new players have new characters to play and veteran players can't replay any of the tier 1-5. So the vets will have to start staying home which isn't that bad for a bigger PFS group but will kill smaller groups like mine was.
tldr; Its really hard to schedule pfs games when you have to worry about replay and character tiers and any improvements would really be appreciated by overworked PFS GMs
Imo, having replay and the ability to apply pregen credit to higher level characters than level 1 would both be a step in the right direction. But i honestly haven't thought of this since my last thread on the subject which went over like a lead balloon.
And i'm sure there's a bunch of other great ideas out there but people seem to be really entrenched in the current method.
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I know some folks who use different e-mail addresses and PFS numbers depending on which store they go to. I realize that there are a lot of very good arguments for not allowing replay. But as Moses said to Pharaoh, "let my people Play" (may have misquoted)
Honestly im not looking to game the systems or damper anyone's fun, I just think its a artificial barrier to game play that doesnt need to be there. We try to get folks to convert over from 5th edition, and dysfunctional and confusing replay rules turn them off.
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Columbia
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i would like to ask where you got the "credit only once per character" information from?
in the online society guild guide, copy pasted it says this
"Repeatable: Repeatable adventures are those that a player may replay (or be the GM for) any number of times and still earn a Chronicle sheet with full rewards each time. These adventures are marked with a Repeatable tag on their title pages and on their product pages on paizo.com."
implying repeatables can be replayed on a single character multiple times?
or everything on pf2 is still all over the place cuz it's hard to find any information for me
You can find the information here.
It is in the Organized Play Basics section.
"Repeatable: Scenarios with this tag can be replayed an unlimited number of times (but only once per character). GMs receive another Chronicle sheet each time they run a scenario with this tag, but can apply credit only once to a given character."
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I was really hoping we had learned...Allow unlimited play
Unless there has been a significant change in attitude recently, there is nothing to “learn.” The majority of the community is not in favor of expanded replay. While there are plenty of people that disagree with that, it continues to be the preference. Until/unless that changes or there is a change of attitude by Tonya and the OP team, it will continue. We know there is a not-insignificant portion of the community that will quit playing if replay is expanded up to and including unlimited. What we don’t know is would the number of people who would join the campaign because they prefer unlimited replay offset those who would quit. The suggestion to date is that it would be a net loss and therefore not in the best interest of the campaign.
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I know some folks who use different e-mail addresses and PFS numbers...
That is not only against campaign rules, it breaks Paizo website rules as well. We can certainly sympathize with the struggle to schedule events, but intentional cheating is never the solution. It undermines the integrity of both the game and those who play it. When we agree to voluntarily join OPF, we agree to follow the rules contained therein. If we don’t like those rules, we have the option of playing “home game” campaigns where we can determine for ourselves what rules we will follow. If you know of anyone who is using multiple email addresses and/or multiple OP numbers, I encourage you to notify Paizo or your local Venture-Officer for resolution.
Explore! Report! Cooperate!
Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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Some scenarios work since they were written for repeat play, others... if I am honest some players have a really hard time not to let their knowledge affect the scenario (though that already happens if they had to GM it already) and plenty of others prefer to avoid playing with those that would replay a scenario based on previous bad experiences.
Right now we are not in a perfect situation, the number of replayable options is only going to increase with time, and even right now we have a lot of ways to play PF2 even if the AP and the module are not sanctioned yet.
If you find yourself with nothing to play, I can wholeheartedly suggest trying to learn to GM and/or look at other org play options like SFS. Personally I already have a hard time staying up to date with all the new releases.
A part of me hopes that we will get an appropriately priced replay option as part of the AcP redemption, and I can see why the demand for more replays is high at the moment, though unlimited replay is something that will just do more harm than good (IMHO).
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Venture-Captain, Virginia—Northern Virginia
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Has there been any discussion on having Specials Be RE-RUN able to be applied to their characters? This may encourage people to want to run more, that would help our base.
And for Stars/Glyphs - Could if you had 1 star - replay one game and re GM a game? Again the goal would be to encourage people to pick up GMing.
I do agree with NOT making everything re-playable. I would like to see a stronger direction to having more re-playable content. (some I think has been discussed else ware). If there was more re-playable/re-gm able content - This could help people that shy away due to Fiscal needs.
Another topic I didn't see a thread for - #1-00 Is that repeatable? On reporting it says it is. any game to help bring in new players - IMO should be repeatable to allow players to experience various characters and options. Just not repeatable for the same character that they would be applied to.
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Just my pair of coppers:
We all want more playable 2E content for PFS play. Right now we are 2 months out from the release of the game and there are 6 scenarios and 1 quest. There is also 1 demo adventure, which I'm not sure if it grants xp or not. So, I have a few solutions to propose.
1. Sanction each volume of the Age of Ashes AP individually, as well as each chapter of the Fall of Plaguestone adventure. If each book of the AP takes 3 sessions to finish, that's another 15 sessions right there, tripling what's available for your customers to play.
2. Convert and sanction 10 PF1E scenarios. This is something the community can help with, as several players have posted their conversions already. If there is a concern with players replaying with previous experience, throw in a few plot twists, change a few details that don't completely derail the adventure but that alter the predictability.
3. Bring in more people to write and edit. Paizo needs to get ahead of schedule if they want to compete with the legendary brand name that's running in the same stores, and in some cases, on the same nights. We need to have more new content or 2E will be still at the starting line while the legacy title is pulling away with our players.
As stated above, this is my pair of coppers. Use as you see fit. I look forward to running and playing more.
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Has there been any discussion on having Specials Be RE-RUN able to be applied to their characters?
The Season 2 Starfinder Special can be played/GMed once for each of the 1-4, 5-8 and 9-12 tiers.
So you can get credit at least 6 times, plus maybe a Nova replay.
Depending on the success of that design and implementation maybe they'll introduce it or something similar for Pathfinder?
I enjoyed it.
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Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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If having the scenarios on unlimited replays would result in a large loss of players what about a limited replay time? For instance one weekend in the month make everything repeatable for different characters? Or the month a scenario is released make it re-playable for a limited time with different characters? Either way you would expand options for players to explore and enjoy different roles. The first way would help out small groups with new and veteran players. The second would spice things up for veterans who want to try new combinations. These are just the first few ideas upon reading this, because I personally prefer being able to replay and using different classes a lot.
No. Just no.
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That we've seen as much change as there has been overall on replay is significant.
If the players burn through the content, it's a disservice to those who get to play if they are lucky at a much slower pace.
It's rough -- there's a shiny new system and play options are narrow.
Happens every time.
Unfortunately, there's no economical way to pre-write two or three years of content. Even if it was, there'd be folks whose mission would be to burn through it as quickly as possible.
And then those lucky few would still insist on replay.
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The damage dealt to early AL by unlimited replay was telling, and even opening a permanent limited amount would be harmful for PFS.
As I haven't been around for the 10+ years of previous debate and don't really have a strong opinion one way or another, can I ask what was the damage done by unlimited replays in AL?
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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The damage dealt to early AL by unlimited replay was telling, and even opening a permanent limited amount would be harmful for PFS.As I haven't been around for the 10+ years of previous debate and don't really have a strong opinion one way or another, can I ask what was the damage done by unlimited replays in AL?
That's a fair question.
There are a bunch of different reasons, and from the stories not just in AL but previously also in Living Greyhawk. The reasons that stand out to me are:
Most adventures don't stay fresh when replayed.
A whodunnit is never quite as exciting the second time around when you already know who dun it. Likewise with an adventure that tries to put you in an interesting and surprising story/combats.
Most of the evergreen scenarios that Paizo's written try to combat this with having multiple enemies that the GM can choose from or alternate story elements. The ones I've enjoyed most were relatively light on story, but had a lot of possible different combat (Tome of Righteous Repose, Beyond the Halflight Path, and the Wounded Wisp also has a bit of this flexibility but does have actual story). It turns out these scenarios are a LOT of work to produce though. On that note, PFS2 does feature an unusually high number of them in the planned first season, to help keep people going while building up the catalog.
Being the new player among replayers can be terrible
Sure, some people are good sports and won't spoil things. Unfortunately, not everyone is good at that. And Paizo puts quite a lot of stress on avoiding spoiling things for others if you're replaying, which I think is easier because people are "on notice" that replay is not a common thing.
The worst stories come down to a table of people all replaying it except for one player who hasn't played it before. The old players are telling the GM to hurry through the story blah blah that they've all heard before, or telling the newbie that "don't do that, we already know what the optimal tactic is, you should..."
It's only a bit better if they're all trying to avoid spoilers. Then you have four people all keeping tight-lipped and acting dumb while the new player is trying to do the RP encounters and making choices. Adventures are meant to be collaborative, not four people keeping mum while watching the last one being in the spotlight.
It crowds new players out of signups
Usually, you have a handful of people willing to GM, and a lot of people looking to play. The regular players generally know best how the signup process works, when new offerings go up and all that. So if they can replay everything all the time, they tend to be in the front of the queue for signups. This leaves new players to sign up for whatever is left - sometimes nothing, or that table with with the GM or powergamer everyone else is trying to avoid.
Scheduling games is hard, I know. We had a tough time of it in our lodge and one of our guys made this tool to help find scenarios that a specific group of people can all play freshly.
It can turn playing into a chore
I mean, people are split all over on whether they like playing low level stuff. Some people prefer high level stuff. Some people just think that characters aren't properly coming unto their build until [insert number here]. With unlimited replay, it's easy to slip into a mindset where you're not showing up to the game session to have a good time, but just to get a piece of paper with XP on it that will hopefully let you have a good time in a different scenario.
Likewise, there's less pressure on GMs to offer new scenarios. Some GMs enjoy running a scenario many times. That's quite okay if it's for new audiences - if there's a story you enjoy telling, get really good at telling it. But it can also cause stagnation - when GMs don't prep new stuff because they can easily fall back on stuff they've already got lying around. And you show up to game day and end up going home thinking "well, I didn't actually play any scenario I wanted to play today, but at least I have XP". That's sounding more like going to work.
When people can't replay all that much, schedulers are pushed not to schedule the same thing too much.
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Limited Replay Is Not Evil
I've sketched a lot of things that can happen when replay is too plentiful. That doesn't mean all replay is bad. I've used enough of it over the years. It can be fun as a player to replay a good scenario and watch other people have the thrill of discovery for the first time. Or to go into a scenario that's particularly fun with this special new character you have. Or to cross swords with that notoriously hard boss again. Or because you want to play something with a select group of people who only rarely meet up.
The key with these things is moderation. Too much replay is awful, especially when you get a lot of replayers all at the same time. But when Paizo gives you only a handful of precious replays, you have to choose carefully what you want to spend them on because it would be really fun. And it means GMs and organizers can't just dictate what's on offer without thinking about their audience.
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Honestly, at this point a map cutout of the location might work decently well.Paizo puts quite a lot of stress on avoiding spoiling thingsNow, if they would just stop putting spoiler images on the front cover...
Or a picture of the Venture-Captain sending you on the mission?
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That might result in reduced sales, depending on the VC.
Or perhaps faction head, or whatever.
I know, you are suggesting that having Sheila Heidmarch would reduce sales...
But who wouldn't want to go on a mission from Calisro Benary?
Ok, no grinning pixie any more, but still. :D
Still, something non-spoilery.
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Venture-Captain, Washington—Seattle
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would post the game on meetup, "Hey guys, any requests for scenarios?" ...crickets... [...]
I would post in the meetup, "Hey guys has anyone played this season 3.x scenario?" Vet 3 and a few newbies, "Looks good to me."
Awesome, i start prepping the scenario.
Tuesday rolls around, 3 people can't make it and drop out. Damn, not enough players.
I'm not going to say anything about replay rules. I just want to point out that the above quote is a prime example of a thing that causes GMs/VAs to burn out, and it's not so much about rules as about human behavior.
For a PFS group (or really any group) to work well, a fair proportion of the players need to have a sense of social responsibility to the group. This means:
(a) as far as possible, signing up in advance;
(b) making a commitment to not drop from a game you signed up for, except in emergencies, unless you know the table is still going to be legal;
And above all:
(c) being considerate to the GM/VA(s), which includes little things like actually responding to them when they ask what you want to play.
I realize my post doesn't help Dan and others like them who have to play the cards they have been dealt and are just looking for ways to make life easier in the face of that, but I thought it needed to be said.
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Venture-Captain, Virginia—Northern Virginia
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So, I wanted to follow up on my original Post. When I suggested Replay – I only Meant for #1-00 Origin of The Open Road.
My issue, that I experienced, is I have run it for newer players, and they enjoyed it. We Ran it again and they showed up, and asked to play again, but as a Different class. I said well you can you, just can’t apply it to another character. They debated a little and then decided to not play if they didn’t get credit.
My suggestion is – You can Only Apply it once for a Level 2-5. And you can Apply it how ever many times for a Level 1. I would argue the same for any game on all systems that have it. I am looking at it as a Promoter and ones to help bring people in. I understand the difficulties, meta gaming, But we would just ask like any other Replay / or previous GM’ed player.
My Goal would be to help Introduce new players – it would be neat to allow them to play different pre-gens to see what they like. Not wait till they get up a few levels and find that this was not the class they were looking for.
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I joined the campaign late and have been spoiled these past several years by having PFS games weekly or multiple times per week. It was a shock to not have enough PFS content to satisfy our appetite.
We are adjusting by;
1) Running games every second week and by taking a full month off so that we were behind the release schedule of the scenarios.
2) Letting players know that that PFS2 won't be able to scratch that gaming itch if they want more than every second week. But that they have several new friends sitting beside them that also want more games, so they should totally throw together a plaguestone/age of ashes game for the off week...
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There's only the one replayable scenario(Absalom Initiation) and the one replayable quest(Sandstone Secret). The reporting system still lists most of the scenarios as replayable, but that's been confirmed as an error/mistake.they released a 2nd replayable scenario actually, and it's also a 1-4
Will release. 1-06 isn't out yet.
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Venture-Captain, Virginia—Northern Virginia
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Unforgiving Fire Quest is not replayable. This was mentioned in the product discussion thread. There is no "replayable" listed in the Tag.I did not know that the quests were not repeatable. That seems so counter to what has been previously done before.
I still stand by Quest, 1-00 will be better for intro players.
And to reply to an earlier comment. There will be all pretend at some point level 5. So again it allows players to experience new things at a higher level with out feeling upset if the newness is not valid if they have done it before.
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There's only the one replayable scenario(Absalom Initiation) and the one replayable quest(Sandstone Secret). The reporting system still lists most of the scenarios as replayable, but that's been confirmed as an error/mistake.they released a 2nd replayable scenario actually, and it's also a 1-4
If you're referring to #1-05: Trailblazer's Bounty, the devs commented that this scenario is not replayable, and the "repeatable" tag on page 2 is an error.
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I am running three characters in 2e scenarios. Is it against the rules for me to play the same scenario with two different characters? (that assumes that the scenario is not marked for replayable)
You can do this under your specific circumstance.
You can replay an adventure in order to help a group reach the minimum legal table size of three players.
Notify the GM: Inform the GM that you have already played the adventure or run it as a GM. Although a GM should endeavor to be flexible when accommodating you in order to form a table of at least three players, the GM maintains the right to deny running the adventure for you if they feel uncomfortable running the event for players who have foreknowledge of the story.
No Spoilers: When you are replaying an adventure, avoid spoiling the adventure’s plot or using insider information to affect gameplay. Doing so can be grounds for the GM to remove you from the table. In general, be mindful in separating player knowledge from character knowledge, and if you are uncertain how to proceed, speak privately with the GM to determine the best course of action.
Rewards: When you replay to help create a legal table, you do not earn any rewards. The GM should provide you a Chronicle sheet that grants no rewards (including gold pieces, Experience Points, Fame, Reputation, and boons). However, do record any items expended or gold spent on the Chronicle sheet. This is an exception to the restriction that you should never assign more than one copy of a Chronicle sheet to a given character.
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Considering the Achievement point system that we are now all using, I wonder if we can get Paizo to reconsider the replay policy and at least reward Achievement Points for replaying a scenario.
To me that would feel like a nice "participation" benefit since you already use your resources and risk death to your character for no XP, prestige or gold rewards. To me a few Achievement points for having played through a whole adventure (sometimes just to help out and make a table legal) seems like a reasonable thing...
Any thought!?!
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Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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<<snip>> (sometimes just to help out and make a table legal)...
This the ONLY time that a person can replay an adventure that does not have the repeatable time. It is not a "sometimes" thing.
I don't think awarding AcP for replaying an adventure that is not a repeatable should be allowed. We already have so many things special things happening on AcP that the website is still not correct.