Rogue thief build


Advice


For the first time in many years I'll be playing a rogue in a 2e campaign. I've gone back to the roots and based the character on an old-school classic 'halfling thief' concept:

Ancestry: Gutsy halfling
Background: Sailor
Class: Rogue, thief racket

Str 8
Dex 18
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 12

My initial plan is to go MC alchemist for healing, poison, utility and elemental sneak attack via bombs. Doesn't come online until the mid levels, but thematically fun.

Any advice on which skills to increase and which feats to take at each level? Not necessarily looking for an 'optimized' build, but a build to fit the concept and be a valuable team member. (This character would never consider doing solo missions.) Any traps to be aware of? The campaign will most likely take us to lvl 20, so I'm trying to plan as far ahead as that.


That low strength might be an issue. The Alchemist's Tools alone weigh 2 Bulk. I'd probably try to get it to 10 or 12. Drop Con to 12 or maybe Charisma to 10 to do so. Also try to get Hefty Hauler at some point (probably early on). Should be easy to do since your background alone makes you meet the requirements.

As for class feats, I'd go with something like

Trap Finder
Alchemist Dedication
Quick Draw
Expert Alchemy
Gang Up
Precise Debilitations
Master Alchemy
Instant Opening
Opportune Backstab
Sly Striker
Impossible Striker

In that order. This assumes you're mostly melee with the occasional bomb sneak attack to the face. That's what Quick Draw is for.

Ancestry feats: Get Halfling Luck at 1, Cultural Adaption (Human) at 5 and Multitalented at 9, picking up any dedication feat that you like.

I'll not go over skill feats sicne a rogue can probably get anything he wants. I'd just make sure to pick up inventor so I can craft my own formulas.

That's just a quick draft, by the way. There's most likely much room for improvement but it might serve as food for thought.


I was considering Skirmish Strike as a good option - basically one more stride action to allow 'spring attack'ing.

How that would stack up with Quick draw I'm not entirely sure. For bomb throwing quickdraw would be superior I guess.

Possibly also Poison weapon to take advantage of alchemist poison crafting for free.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Do not forget that Leather Armor is minimum Str 10 with a -1 check penalty. So with Str 8 you Halfing would suffer a -1 to str and dex based checks.


That's true, but only if you wear armor. At level 1 he is not using any armor, but eventually he will probably use either bracers of armor or explorer's clothes to be able to apply runes.


High dex characters struggle to reach the pinnacles of AC in this edition it seems, since both bracers and clothing have a max dex of +5. Still, perhaps a moderate AC is tolerable if you make sure to not be standing in melee regularly?

With Quick Jump and Cloud Jump he could be fairly mobile at level 15. Skirmish strike to get into flanking position, attack/trip then jump to safety.

Liberty's Edge

Everyone not in heavy armor maxes at Dex + Armor of +5, and even Heavy Armor maxes at +6 (and have an unavoidable movement penalty...unless they're a Dwarf) so Dex characters do as well on AC as anyone.

They just no longer do better.

To be clear, this means Rogues are equal with Rangers, -1 AC behind Fighters (due to the latter getting Heavy Armor), +1 AC over most Barbarians (though that varies by Instinct) and +2 over people who only get to Expert in armor (all casters, plus Alchemists). They're behind Champion and Monk, but so's everybody.

Now, with only Str 8 and no armor, that's not gonna be quite true until you hit Dex 20, but it's true for Rogues wearing armor and true long-term.


Glade wrote:

High dex characters struggle to reach the pinnacles of AC in this edition it seems, since both bracers and clothing have a max dex of +5. Still, perhaps a moderate AC is tolerable if you make sure to not be standing in melee regularly?

With Quick Jump and Cloud Jump he could be fairly mobile at level 15. Skirmish strike to get into flanking position, attack/trip then jump to safety.

I think that's a bit dramatic. They have the same AC is the best light and medium assuming all proficiencies are equal with heavy being one higher, trading speed and bulk for 1 AC.


I guess that's true. And adding in a Nimble Dodge reaction the rogue can get an additional +2 AC at the cost of a reaction. Still, taking away the opposition's ability to retaliate by moving away is also a powerful defense.

At lvl 15 with legendary athletics, skill assurance, quick jump and cloud jump you're looking at a single action jump of 69 feet with no skill check, if I'm reading the rules right. That's one bouncy halfling.


Deadmanwalking wrote:

Everyone not in heavy armor maxes at Dex + Armor of +5, and even Heavy Armor maxes at +6 (and have an unavoidable movement penalty...unless they're a Dwarf) so Dex characters do as well on AC as anyone.

They just no longer do better.

To be clear, this means Rogues are equal with Rangers, -1 AC behind Fighters (due to the latter getting Heavy Armor), +1 AC over most Barbarians (though that varies by Instinct) and +2 over people who only get to Expert in armor (all casters, plus Alchemists).

Alchemist’s do get master armor at 19, FWIW.

Liberty's Edge

Xenocrat wrote:
Alchemist’s do get master armor at 19, FWIW.

Right! That puts them on par with Rogues. I always get confused since they only get Expert in weapons.

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