Is the damage automatic even if the enemy makes their save? I see on a failure the enemy is clumsy etc, but is the damage occuring regardless of the save?
Anyone?
You surround a foe in a swirling storm of violent winds, roiling clouds, and crackling lightning. The storm deals 1d12 electricity damage. The target must attempt a basic Reflex save. On a failure, the target also is clumsy 2 for 1 round and takes 1 persistent electricity damage.
Is it no damage on a save? Half damage on a save? Is there no save for the damage?
That's what I was thinking also just not certain hmm
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The target must attempt a basic Reflex save. On a failure, the target also is clumsy 2 for 1 round and takes 1 persistent electricity damage.
Basic save means double damage on CritFail, full damage on Fail, half damage on Success, no damage on CritSuccess.
After determining the direct damage from the basic save, you then apply the debuff and persistent damage if the save result was a Fail (including presumably CritFail).
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The target must attempt a basic Reflex save. On a failure, the target also is clumsy 2 for 1 round and takes 1 persistent electricity damage.Basic save means double damage on CritFail, full damage on Fail, half damage on Success, no damage on CritSuccess.
After determining the direct damage from the basic save, you then apply the debuff and persistent damage if the save result was a Fail (including presumably CritFail).
Exactly this. Any time you see a "basic" save you need to remember that it refers to the damage value of the ability/spell and damage is modified based on the result of the save.
For clarity, the text says basic save to avoid the additional effects from the spell. The spell stat block does not list the Save as a Basic one though only "Reflex" (other spells do list "Basic Save X" in their block.) Can this be confirmed one way or the other?
For clarity, the text says basic save to avoid the additional effects from the spell. The spell stat block does not list the Save as a Basic one though only "Reflex" (other spells do list "Basic Save X" in their block.) Can this be confirmed one way or the other?I assume this is partially because the entire effect of the save is not "basic", as it has additional effects tied to failure. The text for the spell explains it in full.
I understand what you're saying but if that's the case why wouldn't Sound Burst be listed the same?
As it stands Sound Burst has a block similar to Tempest Surge but without using the word "Basic". I would say that critically failing against Tempest Surge does not have any additional effect from regular failure.
Drain life has similar wording in it's text of listing damage before the use of "Basic Save" in the text, however "Basic Save" is also listed in the Saving Throw portion unlike Tempest Surge
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Various formatting because of what is likely due to two different writers does not change the core rules of the individual effect. Tempest surge states the target must make a basic reflex save. That means no damage on a crit success, 1/2 damage on a success, full damage on a failure, and double damage on a crit fail. There is absolutely no room for debate on that subject as it so clearly states that it is a basic save, and basic saves are clearly written as to how to handle them, even if there is additional text that describes what else happens, if anything, on a given degree of success.