Maximizing a AOO Reach Fighter for a game from 1 to 6.


Advice

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What about the Combat Patrol feat.

Also are you allowed to use Combat Stamina? That adds a bit to several of your feats, including ignoring the requierments on Combat Expertise and Improved Trip


Here's one that uses a Throwing Shield!

Half Elf: Arcane Training, Ancestral Arms: Throwing Shield
1Fighter1: Precise Shot, BAB+1

This character could be a Half Elf with the Arcane Training Alternat Racial Trait that lets you use magic wands. I like the Spell Swift Girding for much the same reason I like the Endurance Feat. You are still sleeping in your underwear, but with Swift Girding, you can dress for battle as a Standard Action instead of the minutes it normally takes.

Dasrak wrote:
The Tripping property does almost nothing;

The Throwing Shield has the Tripping Quality. Usually, you cannot attempt to Trip with a Ranged Weapon unless you have the Ranged Trip Feat or something. But because Throwing Shield is a Trip Weapon, you can.

Trip wrote:
You can use a trip weapon to make trip attacks.

2F2: Quickdraw, BAB+2

A Throwing Shield can also be a Quickdraw Throwing Shield and be drawn as a Free Action.

So this character could carry a supply of throwing shields, like a quiver of spears, but he should as quickly as possible invest in a Blinkback Belt, which will return his shield to his belt where he can then re-draw it as a Free Action.

Another thing this character should invest in as quickly as possible is the Bashing Shield Enchantment, so it will do 2d6 Daamge.

So I think the next thing on the agenda is make it so the character can use the Throwing Shield in Melee.

3F3: Weapon focus Throwing Shield, Armor Training +1, BAB+3
4F4: Dodge, BAB+4
5F5: Close Quarters Thrower, Weapon Training, Thrown Weapons +1, BAB+5

You can’t make Attacks of Opportunity if you don’t Threaten any Squares.

6F6: Bravery+2, Rapid Shot, BAB+6
7F7: Snap Shot, Armor Training, Armored Juggernaut, BAB+7

The OP wants Reach.

8F8: Improved Snapshot, BAB +8
9F9: Combat Reflexes, Weapon Training Thrown Weapons +2, Armed Bravery, BAB+9

Now for Tripping.

10F10: Bravery +3, Combat Expertise, BAB+10
11F11: Improved Trip, Armor Training, BAB+11
12F12: Greater Trip, BAB+12

Now this is really an Attack of Opportunity Build, he should share the love:

13F12Cavalier1: Order of the Eel, Challenge: +1 Attack for Allies, Tactician, Paired Opportunist, Weapon Specialization, BAB+13

Lets get more Attacks of Opportunity!

14F13C1: Weapon Training+3, Fighter’s Tactics, BAB+14
15F14C1: Bravery+4, Broken Wing Gambit, Harder they Fall, BAB+15

Since this character’s Belt Slot is taken up by a Blinkback Belt, the Belt of Impossible Action is pretty much not an option, so Harder They Fall is the way to enable Tripping of oversize opponents.

16F14C2: Order Ability, +1 Attack and Saving Throws for 1 Ally vs. Opponents Cavalier is Threatening, BAB+16
17F15C2: Armor Training, Startoss Style, BAB+17
18F16C2: Startoss Comet, BAB+18
19F17C2: Startoss Shower, BAB+19
20F18C2: Greater Snap Shot, BAB+20


I just posted another Throwing Shield build here .


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baggageboy wrote:
Small contribution, temple guard trait for the +1 on attacks of opportunity with pole arms. Probably worth picking up

Since AoOs are generally made at full attack-bonus, having a +1 here isn't usually necessary.

It's a better trait for reach-clerics as opposed to full martials.


Slim Jim wrote:
baggageboy wrote:
Small contribution, temple guard trait for the +1 on attacks of opportunity with pole arms. Probably worth picking up

Since AoOs are generally made at full attack-bonus, having a +1 here isn't usually necessary.

It's a better trait for reach-clerics as opposed to full martials.

I always want another +1.

What Traits do you recommend instead?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
But that doesn't mean that it isn't worth considering, and it certainly doesn't justify your harsh language.

Don't project hostility where there is none. I disagree with you; I'm not insulting you. I do realize that I can be very opinionated, but I make a concerted effort to focus on the point of debate and not to make things personal.

I agree with Slim Jim that this has gone pretty far afield so I'll leave this at "agree to disagree"


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Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
baggageboy wrote:
Small contribution, temple guard trait for the +1 on attacks of opportunity with pole arms. Probably worth picking up

Since AoOs are generally made at full attack-bonus, having a +1 here isn't usually necessary.

It's a better trait for reach-clerics as opposed to full martials.

I always want another +1.

What Traits do you recommend instead?

What sources does your GM permit?

Do you expect to level out of 1st reasonably quick with average WBL, or is this going to be a drag-on, starvation-budget E6-type campaign where you can never find anything decent for sale in the flyspeck towns you're always going to?


Dasrak wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
But that doesn't mean that it isn't worth considering, and it certainly doesn't justify your harsh language.

Don't project hostility where there is none. I disagree with you; I'm not insulting you. I do realize that I can be very opinionated, but I make a concerted effort to focus on the point of debate and not to make things personal.

I agree with Slim Jim that this has gone pretty far afield so I'll leave this at "agree to disagree"

I'm not the one who has been going far afield. I've been offering powerful builds that use Attacks of Opportunity, Tripping, and Reach, or something that works like Reach. That's what the OP was asking for.

And, I have defended my ideas from attacks.

It is fair to say you have not gone ad hominem on this thread, nor does any incident of your having gone ad hom. stick in my memory.


Slim Jim wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
baggageboy wrote:
Small contribution, temple guard trait for the +1 on attacks of opportunity with pole arms. Probably worth picking up

Since AoOs are generally made at full attack-bonus, having a +1 here isn't usually necessary.

It's a better trait for reach-clerics as opposed to full martials.

I always want another +1.

What Traits do you recommend instead?

What sources does your GM permit?

Do you expect to level out of 1st reasonably quick with average WBL, or is this going to be a drag-on, starvation-budget E6-type campaign where you can never find anything decent for sale in the flyspeck towns you're always going to?

I'm not in a campaign right now.

Let's say Pathfinder Society.

What traits do you recommend for the builds of this thread: AoO, Tripping, Reaching?

And I'm interested in knowing about your favorite Traits in general.


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Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Dasrak wrote:
Armed Bravery. It's an Advanced Weapon Training option, but Fighters can take that as a bonus feat once they have Weapon Training. At the levels we're talking about it's not any better than Iron Will, but at higher levels +4 or +5 to all will saves is so good as to be basically mandatory, and is a huge loss for any Fighter archetypes that trade off Bravery or Weapon Training.
Can you cite and quote the rule that says that Armed Bravery can be taken as a Bonus Feat? I'm having trouble finding it.

Here or here for something similar. Both combat feats.

Silver Crusade

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If you'll be using a lot of combat maneuvers, especially Trips, consider the Race Trait Bred for War.

Bred for War wrote:

You tower above most other humans and possess a physique of hard, corded muscle.

Benefit You gain a +1 trait bonus on Intimidate checks and a +1 trait bonus on your CMB because of your great size. You must be at least 6 feet tall.

Also consider Armor Expert, which can be read as "get a +1 to all physical skills". Unless you expect to get enough Armor Expertise through another class that it'll be a moot point.


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Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
What Traits do you recommend instead?
What sources does your GM permit? Do you expect to level out of 1st reasonably quick with average WBL, or is this going to be a drag-on, starvation-budget E6-type campaign where you can never find anything decent for sale in the flyspeck towns you're always going to?
Let's say Pathfinder Society. What traits do you recommend for the builds of this thread: AoO, Tripping, Reaching? And I'm interested in knowing about your favorite Traits in general.

If you're a straight-class, strength-based polearm martial in PFS who is not a Drunken Brute archetype barbarian (because they duplicate the trait's ability for free), then the combat-trait Accelerated Drinker is integral to the chassis of your build (in fact, it's more important than most feats, and is probably right up there with being a rager, or at least dipping barbarian so you can rage).

-- Your plan is to get BIG in the first round by drinking Enlarge Person potions, every time beyond the penniless baby levels, save in those rare instances where enemies are already adjacent before your first action, or the encounter is pure artillery-duel. Accelerated Drinker lets you do all of {AoO, reach, trip} more easily, at the low, low cost of 50gp per encounter.

* Getting big increases your attack-bonus and your melee damage-dice.

* Getting big doubles your reach, shelters teammates under your "umbrella", and earns AoOs. If you want to trip, use your AoOs to trip opponents with insufficient reach of their own, and then you don't need trip feats. Being big and hitting a guy on the floor means you're +5 better than a normal-size swinging at a standing-up opponent; +7 better relatively if that other fighter doesn't rage compared to you who do. Yes, that's it: Let the hate flow through you.

* Getting big permits you to attain two-handed "sweet spots" in strength (18, 22, 26, etc) more easily without allocating hideous amounts of point-buy during character construction. E.g., it's only 7pts for a starting 15 racially bumped to a 17, which becomes an 18 at 4th, then 20 with a +2 belt, and Enlarge Person gets you to a sweet spot of 22.

* Last but not least, being able to get big on your own means you can tell the party caster that he doesn't have to cast Enlarge Person on you.


Ryan Freire wrote:
Bravery is 1 feat away from being a scaling will save bonus vs all mind affecting and 2 from sharing that with your party. Giving up bravery is a bad thing now.
Dasrak wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
I'm not aware of this. Which Feat?
Armed Bravery. It's an Advanced Weapon Training option, but Fighters can take that as a bonus feat once they have Weapon Training. At the levels we're talking about it's not any better than Iron Will, but at higher levels +4 or +5 to all will saves is so good as to be basically mandatory, and is a huge loss for any Fighter archetypes that trade off Bravery or Weapon Training.
Ryan Freire wrote:
Or Improved bravery from ultimate intrigue.

I added some links above.

Well, here is the class feature in question:

Bravery wrote:
Starting at 2nd level, a fighter gains a +1 bonus on Will saves against fear. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels beyond 2nd.

I noticed some magic items:

6,000 gp, neck slot: If the wearer of the amulet has the bravery class feature, she increases the bonus she receives on Will saves against fear by 1.
14,000 gp, headband: If the wearer has the bravery class feature, she is considered four levels higher when determining that class feature’s effect.
4,000 gp, chest slot: The wearer treats his fighter level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of the armor training and bravery class features.

Since the Bravery class feature is not capped, both the sash and the band work for the life of the character. Too bad they don't stack.

The amulet increases the bonus instead, so it will stack with either of the other items. It is also cheapest. So at 20th level, you can get a +7 bonus from Bravery to apply to your saving throws.

/cevah


What keeps the sash and the band from stacking? They aren't a typed bonus?


Guys, a lot of this is all well and good, but the OP is looking at 1-6. Alot of the advice being given is for builds focusing on much higher levels.


Let's try a build with whips.

Half Elf: Ancestral Arms, Whip; Arcane Training

A whip is a Reach weapon with a 15' Reach that can also attack adjacent opponents. It is a Tripping and a Disarming Weapon. Also, it is a cheap weapon that doesn't weigh much, so if you drop it, you just pull another one off your belt. It has a lot of desireable qualities.

1Fighter1: Weapon Focus Whip, Phalanx Formation
2F2: Bravery+1, Armed Bravery

Thanks, Ryan.

3F3: Armor Training+1, Whip Mastery

Now the whip can inflict lethal Damage, and it can damage armored targets.

4F4: Combat Reflexes
5F5: Weapon Training+1, Advanced Weapon Training, Fighter Focus Whip Damage 1d8

Thanks again!

6F6: Improved Whip Mastery, Bravery+2, Reach 20'
7F6Living Monolith1: Ka Stone, Iron Will, Whip Damage 1d8/2d6, Reach 25'
8F7L1: Armed Juggernaut
9F8L1: Combat Expertise
10F9L1: Weapon Training +2, Advanced Training, Fighter Tactics
11F9L1Cavalier1: Broken Wing Gambit, Tactician, Paired Opportunist

You and all your allies get an Attack of Opportunity whenever you are attacked!

12F10L1C1: Harder they Fall, Bravery+3, Whip Damage 1d10/2d8
13F11L1C1: Improved Trip, Armor Training+2
14F12L1C1: Greater Trip
15F13L1C1: Coordinated Maneuvers, Weapon Training +3
16F14L1C1: Fury’s Fall, Bravery+4
17F15L1C1: Whip Damage 2d6/3d6, Martial Versatility, Weapon Focus Improved Disarm
18F15L1C1Monk1: Master of Many Styles, Monk Stuff, Unarmed 1d6, Ascetic Style
19F16L1C1M1: Vicious Stomp, Martial Versatility, Ascetic Style


baggageboy wrote:
Guys, a lot of this is all well and good, but the OP is looking at 1-6. Alot of the advice being given is for builds focusing on much higher levels.

Actually, what he said is that he needed builds described up to level 6. He never said, as far as I know, that his campaign only goes to level 6. He never said that he wants no consideration past level 6. For all we know, the campaign begins at level 6.

So, a build that goes from level 1 -level 20 is all that he asked for and more.

Nothing wrong with that.


Ryan Freire wrote:
What keeps the sash and the band from stacking? They aren't a typed bonus?

Since both set the level based off the fighter's level, as a GM I would rule this as two identical effects, thus not stacking. If it had said "adds 4 levels for the purpose of the Bravery feature", then it would stack.

If you can get your GM to rule otherwise, more fun for you with a +8 at 20th.

/cevah


Only 1 specifically mentions fighter level though. I mean it doesn't really matter either way. You take the sash of the war champion because the headband is way more expensive for less (imo) overall benefit.


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Quote:
If you're a straight-class, strength-based polearm martial in PFS who is not a Drunken Brute archetype barbarian (because they duplicate the trait's ability for free), then the combat-trait Accelerated Drinker is integral to the chassis of your build (in fact, it's more important than most feats, and is probably right up there with being a rager, or at least dipping barbarian so you can rage).

Let's rage and cast spells, just not at the same time! And ride a raging animal that doesn't cast spells (at least not that we know of, but we're deeply suspicious)....

STR+ 17 or 19 (bump 4th)
DEX: 14
CON: 14 (PFS-legal 20pt-buy half-orc)
INT: 12 or 7
WIS: 14
CHA: 7

racial trait: Sacred Tattoo
character traits: Fate's Favored, Berserker of the Society
01 barbarian1 [Drunken Brute/Savage Technologist], Extra Rage
02 warpriest1 [Divine Commander:Mount][Weapon Focus]
03 warpriest2 Additional Traits: Hongal Bloodrider, Magical Knack
04 warpriest3 [Battle Tactician:Amplified Rage], STR>(bump)
05 barbarian2 [rage power:Ferocious Beast], Boon Companion
06 warpriest4 [Sacred Weapon +1]

Goody list breakdown:
* scaling bonus to mucho stuff with swift-cast Divine Favor
* ...you heard that right: cast spells as a swift-action!
* drink potions as a move-action without sacrificing barbarian move since we're usually mounted and getting 50' that way
* full-level mount (choices are limited, but horses are best at low-level) which is already combat-trained and getting Light Armor Proficiency for free
* animal rages with us, and...
* ...gains the benefit of Teamwork Feats sans prerequisites...
* ...which means we'll double-dip Amplified Rage for +8 strength
* ...and anyone else in the party also raging jumps up to +8 too.
* wear heavy armor and kiss goodbye the check penalty while riding.

* Last, but not least, we're a Conan-quoting Mongol half-orc. What's not to love?

Tactics: swift-fervor Divine Favor, then rage & do martial stuff.

If the build ever does see a 7th level, it'll dip Fighter[Dragoon], and take Mounted Combat, Skill Focus(Ride), and Indomitable Mount all at once.

(Note really an AoO build, but you can always pop Fortuitous on your polearm via Sacred Weapon. If anything crowds inside the doughnut, your also-amplified raging horse with will be happy to take its three attacks.)

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