Custom Staff - How much?


Advice


I have been at my shadow/illusion wizard possily crafting a magic staff

I am hoping my DM allows me to combine two seperate Magic items into one but, before I do that, I want to go in there prepared.

I want to work out the cost specifically

The two items in question are

1. Crook of Cidhureen
2. Rod of the Wayang


Nightbinder, Cold-forged Oakwood Shadowstaff
Aura: Moderate Illusion
CL: 9th
Slot: None
Price: 30,000gp
Weight: 5lbs
This twisted and gnarled oak staff lacquered jet black, covered with bright white runes, and capped with a crown of jagged smoky quartz draws upon the formless magic of the Shadow Plane.

• As long as the staff has at least 1 charge, the DC of spells of the shadow subschool cast by the wielder or the staff are increased by 1.

• Once per day on command, the wielder can expand 1 charge to treat positive and negative energy effects as if they were an undead creature, taking damage from positive energy and healing damage from negative energy. This ability lasts for 1 minute unless dismissed as a free action.

• The wielder can expand 1 charge to cast major image

• The wielder can expand 2 charges to cast shadow conjuration

• The wielder can expand 3 charges to cast shadow evocation

• The staff can further influence shadow conjuration and shadow evocation spells, whether cast from the staff or the wielder’s daily allotment of spells, without increasing the spell’s level. By expending up to 5 charges, the wielder can increase the shadowy substance used to form such spells by +10% per charge, up to a maximum of +50%. Using the staff for this purpose does not increase the casting time of these spells.

Construction
Requirements
Craft Staff, major image, shadow conjuration greater, shadow evocation greater; Cost 15,000 gp


Combining 2 items would normally add 1.5x the cost of the cheaper item to the cost of the more expensive item. 16 800 + 1.5*12 000 = 34 800 gp.


I think you need to increase the caster level and to recalculate the price of the spell in the new staff because you are trying to fuse a rod into a staff


Zepheri wrote:
I think you need to increase the caster level and to recalculate the price of the spell in the new staff because you are trying to fuse a rod into a staff

No. If you were adding spells to the staff, that would be one thing. But this is literally the abilities of two items in one. The cost of the smaller item ×1.5 works just fine.


Quixote wrote:
Zepheri wrote:
I think you need to increase the caster level and to recalculate the price of the spell in the new staff because you are trying to fuse a rod into a staff
No. If you were adding spells to the staff, that would be one thing. But this is literally the abilities of two items in one. The cost of the smaller item ×1.5 works just fine.

Ok but rod and staff operate in different ways of crafting and I don't think that only 1.5 must apply


Zepheri wrote:
Quixote wrote:
Zepheri wrote:
Ok but rod and staff operate in different ways of crafting and I don't think that only 1.5 must apply

Okay, I'll bite. How do rods and staves "operate" compared to one another?


Quixote wrote:
Zepheri wrote:
Quixote wrote:
Zepheri wrote:
Ok but rod and staff operate in different ways of crafting and I don't think that only 1.5 must apply
Okay, I'll bite. How do rods and staves "operate" compared to one another?

there aren’t items that are both staves and rods, they have mechanical differences and there’s a significant advantage to having them both on the same item. That said, it’s comparable to the mechanical advantage for combining slotted items, so the 1.5 seems like it would still be reasonable.

Caster level differences can be an issue as well; combining a Metamagic rod and a normal CL 8 staff would be tricky because the rod is CL 17 which would be a big jump for the cost of the staff. Here the CLs are pretty close, 8 and 9, so it’s not much of an problem.


Lelomenia wrote:
there aren’t items that are both staves and rods, they have mechanical differences and there’s a significant advantage to having them both on the same item. That said, it’s comparable to the mechanical advantage for combining slotted items, so the 1.5 seems like it would still be reasonable.

This is the point I was trying to make. Obviously one item with the abilities of two is better than two items separately.

You hold the rod, it gives you a static bonus and can activate it's ability.
You hold the staff. You can activate it's abilities.
Their "mechanical differences" are...where, exactly?

Lelomenia wrote:
Caster level differences can be an issue as well; combining a Metamagic rod and a normal CL 8 staff would be tricky because the rod is CL 17 which would be a big jump for the cost of the staff.

No. Just no. If the effect of the item doesn't change due to cater level, then the price doesn't change either. If I made a double-wand that cast fireball and cure light wounds, I would not be forced to pay for cure light wounds as a lvl5 caster. And if I chose to do so, the effect would reflect that.

The equations behind magic item creation are some of the most obviously flawed aspects of this game. They are guidelines, nothing more. The ×1.5 cost for multiple abilities is occasionally reasonable at best, but here it works fine. Anyone who disagrees is needlessly complicating things.


Quixote wrote:


Lelomenia wrote:
Caster level differences can be an issue as well; combining a Metamagic rod and a normal CL 8 staff would be tricky because the rod is CL 17 which would be a big jump for the cost of the staff.

No. Just no. If the effect of the item doesn't change due to cater level, then the price doesn't change either. If I made a double-wand that cast fireball and cure light wounds, I would not be forced to pay for cure light wounds as a lvl5 caster. And if I chose to do so, the effect would reflect that.

The equations behind magic item creation are some of the most obviously flawed aspects of this game. They are guidelines, nothing more. The ×1.5 cost for multiple abilities is occasionally reasonable at best, but here it works fine. Anyone who disagrees is needlessly complicating things.

It is a little more complicated when you consider damaging the item. The CL of the item gets considered when its subjected to hazards that require saving throws, as well as trying to counterspell the effects of an item or dispel the item directly. Giving an item 2 CLs... what do you count it as? Especially when you consider that items like staves have the CL of the item directly figured into the formula for market price, while items like metamagic rods do not. And if metamagic rods didn't do something that basically put it in outside of the realm of magic it wouldn't be a CL 17 item when you go to make a lesser version. The only reason metamagic rods are CL 17 is because they do something that is wish-like/can't be done with normal magic.


Meirril wrote:
It is a little more complicated when you consider damaging the item. The CL of the item gets considered when its subjected to hazards that require saving throws, as well as trying to counterspell the effects of an item or dispel the item directly. Giving an item 2 CLs... what do you count it as? Especially when you consider that items like staves have the CL of the item directly figured into the formula for market price, while items like metamagic rods do not.

Um...take the highest caster level, obviously. Want to damage the staff part? It's caster level 12. Want to damage the rod part? Well, it's all the same item, so it's still a caster level of 12. But hey, you paid 50% more for the rod, so...

But it's hardly an advantage; all you've really done is said "hey, if you can damage my one cool item, I'll let you damage this slightly less awesome one for free."

So...nope. 50% premium still works fine.


If you are trying to combine the abilities of multiple types of magic items, then the resulting item should require those crafting feats. I this case, you are trying to combine a staff and a rod. The requirements should be the Craft Staff and Craft Rod feats. If you don't do this, then any spellcaster could reason that they don't ever need to select Craft Rod, using this case as an example of how to avoid it.

I would also enforce the +50% price increase to weaker abilities. This staff being designed requires only 1 hand to use, instead of 2 (1 for the staff, 1 for the rod). It also reduces the weight you have to carry around (a rod or staff weighs 5 pounds).


Just as an aside wood isn't forged, whether cold-forged or otherwise. 'Cold-forged Oakwood' is an oxymoron.

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