Cheapest way to restore hp, a math question


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I am trying to figure out if a given option is efficient or not.

A happy stick costs 750gp, and restores 5.5hp per charge.

An amped up happy stick costs 6125 for the first one, and then 1125 for each one thereafter since we can reuse a 5000gp diamond to up the caster level by 2, resulting in 1d8+5hp restored (9.5hp per charge).

If neither version of a wand of CLW works, we could try a wand of Infernal Healing, but that costs 2000gp each, for 10hp and 40gp a charge (50 charges).

Which option is more efficient?


The amped stick gets cheaper than the standard after you have made 30. The infernal will always lose to the standard by these numbers, and has other possible issues.


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A wand of infernal healing (should) only be 750gp, and restores 500 hp in total. This results in a cost of 1.5gp per hp.

By contrast, a regular wand of CLW costs 750gp, and heals 275 hp on average, or 450 hp at most if all dice are rolled maximum. This in a cost of 2.72gp per hp on average or 1.66gp per hp at maximum.

A wand of infernal healing is the cheapest way to restore HP.

I'm unsure what this amped stick you are talking about is, or what the diamond is for. Please explain those.


If you need to heal an army (well, nine or more people at once) then greater path of glory could be cost-efficient.

Sovereign Court

A spell that gets overlooked but works well as a supplement is Scarify. It "heals" an average of 8 per charge at CL 1 (so 400 average). Since it doesn't actually heal but converts damage from Lethal to Non-lethal you need an additional method of healing as well. Since Non-lethal is healed at the same time as Lethal damage, you get to double dip at a slightly better rate then spamming Cure Lights.

My preferred method of healing:
A class with Channel Energy (Shaman for me), a class with Ki Pool (Ninja 2 for me, though Shigenjo Oracle of Life 7 hits both, though is Tengu only), Ki Channel, and Tea of Transference.
Essentially, Channel to heal everyone else, choose to gain Ki Points instead for yourself. Use the Tea to turn the Ki Points into more Channels or lower level spells. Once you get 4th level spells, you can get a 'wand of second level and lower spells' (ie 50 doses of tea) for 2000 gp, instead of a 2nd level wand being 4500gp. And you use your own CL.
At minimum this is a 1d6 channel for 40gp, so as soon as you are hitting net 5 dice being healed (ie 1d6 affecting 5 people or 5d6 affecting 1) it becomes more efficient than CLW wand spam. At 8 net dice its cheaper than Infernal Healing.
And you get to spam your lower level spells at 40gp a pop.
Minor Creation to make bricks of Tea? Though getting it on list is a little difficult.

Grand Lodge

My favorite method of healing between combats is Boots of the Earth Fast healing 1 that lasts as long as you don't move, so stand still for a couple minutes in between combats and you can top off even the burliest of barbarian builds in perpetuity for the low price of 5000gp.

Sovereign Court

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Unfortunately for PFS, those boots are 1/day.


Actually having a cleric that channels positive energy is the cheapest.

A druid that has Druidic Herbalism as their divine bond makes their wis mod in free potions per day. Not sure how PFS handles Druid Herbalism but since they don't allow crafting feats I'm going to suppose it is banned?


willuwontu wrote:

A wand of infernal healing (should) only be 750gp, and restores 500 hp in total. This results in a cost of 1.5gp per hp.

By contrast, a regular wand of CLW costs 750gp, and heals 275 hp on average, or 450 hp at most if all dice are rolled maximum. This in a cost of 2.72gp per hp on average or 1.66gp per hp at maximum.

A wand of infernal healing is the cheapest way to restore HP.

I'm unsure what this amped stick you are talking about is, or what the diamond is for. Please explain those.

Nope. You forget that you have to use either a drop of infernal blood, or unholy water. Since that demonic/devlish blood is gonna be REALLY hard to come by, the unholy water costs 25gp a pop. That means the wand costs 750+1250gp, aka 2000gp for 50 copies in a fully charged wand.

Oh, and I am using exact average hp restoration rolls to estimate value.


Okay, a normal wand of CLW does 1d8+1 of cure per charge, at 750 a pop.

If you up the caster level to 3rd, you do 1d8+3hp of cure per charge, but it costs more.

The 5000gp diamond that you can reuse ups the caster level by 2 for conjuration healing spells, I got it out of an old 3.5 book Magic of Faerun. Get it?


Java Man wrote:
The amped stick gets cheaper than the standard after you have made 30. The infernal will always lose to the standard by these numbers, and has other possible issues.

You are saying that after the PC's buy CLW wands at CL3, and have spent the one time reusable 5000gp diamond that ups the CL to 5, it is therefore more efficient after THIRTY WHOLE WANDS? That doesn't make sense.

You are saying that the Wand of Infernal Healing is inefficient compared to a standard CLW wand? What about versus the improved CLW wand with the reusable diamond?

Liberty's Edge

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Piccolo wrote:

Okay, a normal wand of CLW does 1d8+1 of cure per charge, at 750 a pop.

If you up the caster level to 3rd, you do 1d8+3hp of cure per charge, but it costs more.

The 5000gp diamond that you can reuse ups the caster level by 2 for conjuration healing spells, I got it out of an old 3.5 book Magic of Faerun. Get it?

3.5 =/= Pathfindre

And, probably, it increases your CL, not an item CL. We need the actual text to see how it work.


Meirril wrote:

Actually having a cleric that channels positive energy is the cheapest.

A druid that has Druidic Herbalism as their divine bond makes their wis mod in free potions per day. Not sure how PFS handles Druid Herbalism but since they don't allow crafting feats I'm going to suppose it is banned?

This is a home game, not PFS.

Unfortunately, the party Cleric wants to be a necromancer, and control a small gang of undead as cannon fodder. To that end, he has negative energy channeling. When we hit 3rd level, maybe I can sweet talk the player into taking Versatile Channeling, but that feat deducts 2 levels from his channeling of positive energy.

Thus, the need for a really good source of noncombat healing.

Sovereign Court

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Piccolo wrote:
Nope. You forget that you have to use either a drop of infernal blood, or unholy water. Since that demonic/devlish blood is gonna be REALLY hard to come by, the unholy water costs 25gp a pop. That means the wand costs 750+1250gp, aka 2000gp for 50 copies in a fully charged wand.

Its commonly accepted that since the drop of devil blood does not have a gold piece value listed (and is not listed on any readily available table for price) that it falls under the spell component pouch clause and is effectively 'free'.


Piccolo wrote:
Java Man wrote:
The amped stick gets cheaper than the standard after you have made 30. The infernal will always lose to the standard by these numbers, and has other possible issues.

You are saying that after the PC's buy CLW wands at CL3, and have spent the one time reusable 5000gp diamond that ups the CL to 5, it is therefore more efficient after THIRTY WHOLE WANDS? That doesn't make sense.

You are saying that the Wand of Infernal Healing is inefficient compared to a standard CLW wand? What about versus the improved CLW wand with the reusable diamond?

When I calculated gp/hp healed those were the answers I got, numbers not opinion. At 15gp/ charge the stadard wand is about 3gp/ hp. With the amped wand if we spread the diamonc cost over all wands made the gp/hp gets better than standard wands at 30 (this does not take into account that you might get other use out of the diamond as well, or how the price goes if you sell the diamond back after making a stack.) By your math infernal healing is 4gp/hp.


Actually, if you can resell the diamond for close to full value the very best is going to be standard CLW wands, using the diamond to boost to cl3 for 7.5hp per charge, so 2hp/hp.


Magic of Faerun - that's the book which introduces the incantatrix prestige class, one of D&D 3.x's most famously overpowered prestige classes. I'd be really wary about allowing content from there if it was my game.

Wands of CLW are generally good enough IME. I ran a game where a wizard making scrolls of infernal healing was good enough ("Where are you getting the devil's blood from?" "Don't ask.") That will likely be even more true if there's a bunch of undead soaking up hits which would otherwise go to PCs.


willuwontu wrote:

A wand of infernal healing (should) only be 750gp, and restores 500 hp in total. This results in a cost of 1.5gp per hp.

By contrast, a regular wand of CLW costs 750gp, and heals 275 hp on average, or 450 hp at most if all dice are rolled maximum. This in a cost of 2.72gp per hp on average or 1.66gp per hp at maximum.

A wand of infernal healing is the cheapest way to restore HP.

I'm unsure what this amped stick you are talking about is, or what the diamond is for. Please explain those.

oh ye of little math.

with a different spell, a LOT of movement (and a drill Sergent - it need a LOT of cooperation, but can be done) i calculated a level 2 spell to heal 129 hp spread around 63 people per casting (50 charges would be 6450 total healed with full charged wand that cost 4500 gp so roughly 8 sp per hp or 0.8 gp).

and if you buy an extended wand of said spell (3rd level wand so 11,500 gp cost. but it has higher caster level) it would heal up to 1,130 hp spread around 203 people per charge (so 56,500 hp for all 50 charges. less then 0.2 gp per hp healed).

here goes:
using the path of glory spell the caster set up 4 x 5-ft squares in diagonal. btw all the area to be used in the spell casting and around it should be filled with people, beside one square off to the corner of the diagonal line. each round during the spell duration the caster extend the line by 4 more diagonal squares.
during the drill after the caster finished casting each person to be healed (caster included) delay until his turn in the drill order.
first to act is the caster who end his turn in a healing square (HS for short) then the one on the opposite side of the empty space (or someone who move into his space) bull-rush him into it(clearing his own space, bullrush is an auto success if the target doesn't oppose). by order, after each end his turn and heal 1 hp (saying 'done' out of turn order is allowed) they each ether move into someone else area and bull rush the guy in the HS to the new empty space, clearing up space along the diagonal line for the peopole down the line.

first round would be like so :
C = clear spot . the caster is shoved into one after casting and healing.
w = wounded person space.
X = HS. also includes a wounded person in it).

at 1st round

Cww
wXww
wwXww
cwwXww
ccwwXw
cccwww

2nd round:
2 = the new 4 squares added. all, beside the one with the last HS from last round, have new wounded people in and around them to heal.
n = new people added to heal

Cww
wXww
wwXww
cwwXww
ccwwXwn
cccww2nn
ccccnn2nn
cccccnn2nn
ccccccnn2n
cccccccnnn

with the extended wand it last for 10 rounds adding 20 people per round after the first (1st round has 23 people in it).

so 23 are healed for 10 hp, 20 for 9, 20 for 8....20 for 1 in the last round.
23*10+20*9+20*8...+20*1 =230+900 = 1130 hp for one charge.

i did the math in a sloppy fast way. others might well improve this method. this uses one medium or small person per square, if you can get more (like ratfolk swarming etc) this would heal a LOT more people (or ratfolks at least).

for a TON of healing (if anyone want to do the math go on a head. im not bothering with this one) i suggest a symbol of healing though this one can't heal the same people over and over in a 24 hour period. unlike the path of glory.


A different approach for Path of Glory:
Ending Your Movement: You can’t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.

Just… pile on stacks of helpless creatures in those squares. Maybe by having a caster with Cloak of Dreams stand next to these squares - anyone ending their move just has to voluntarily fail their save, fall asleep, and become helpless, opening up the space for the next creature to end their turn in it.


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GM might limit how many people can be stacked helplessly in the same space before they start sliding over to other square. i rather use rules that don't need to be argued with.


maximized empowered symbol of healing that had permanency cast on it can be used daily by an entire army to heal around 46 hp per person. cost 10,500 gp but last as long as it's not dispelled . mount on a fast mount or tie to flying companion (as airplane's banners) for easy use.


zza ni wrote:
GM might limit how many people can be stacked helplessly in the same space before they start sliding over to other square. i rather use rules that don't need to be argued with.

A GM might also limit the commoner railgun shove-train approach, partially because I don't see any rule that says that you can just accept a combat maneuver being used against you (the roll is against a static defense value, not an opposed roll). Any abuse of readied actions and positioning might fall to GM scrutiny.


hmm. i think i got that mixed from the overrun maneuver where the target can just let you go pass allowing you to succeed automatically.

as well as the fact that if they don't resist and are considered helpless\immobile etc (big 'if' question there) then in the maneuvers section it state it is auto success:
" If your target is immobilized, unconscious, or otherwise incapacitated, your maneuver automatically succeeds " i think it's logical to allow yourself to be immobile if you chose to.


That opens up some interesting uses for bull rushing/repositioning allies in combat…
…but that's an entirely different topic.


zza ni wrote:
snip

True, if I'm looking to heal an army path of glory is cheaper, but how is the cost comparison for just the 4 people (caster included) that typically make up a party.


Piccolo wrote:

Nope. You forget that you have to use either a drop of infernal blood, or unholy water. Since that demonic/devlish blood is gonna be REALLY hard to come by, the unholy water costs 25gp a pop. That means the wand costs 750+1250gp, aka 2000gp for 50 copies in a fully charged wand.

Oh, and I am using exact average hp restoration rolls to estimate value.

You're forgetting that you can get an infinite supply of devil blood from a 1gp spell component pouch.

Given that this is due to houserules in the game, I have flagged this post as being in the wrong forum. This thread should either be moved to Homebrew, or Advice forums.


Piccolo wrote:
willuwontu wrote:

A wand of infernal healing (should) only be 750gp, and restores 500 hp in total. This results in a cost of 1.5gp per hp.

By contrast, a regular wand of CLW costs 750gp, and heals 275 hp on average, or 450 hp at most if all dice are rolled maximum. This in a cost of 2.72gp per hp on average or 1.66gp per hp at maximum.

A wand of infernal healing is the cheapest way to restore HP.

I'm unsure what this amped stick you are talking about is, or what the diamond is for. Please explain those.

Nope. You forget that you have to use either a drop of infernal blood, or unholy water. Since that demonic/devlish blood is gonna be REALLY hard to come by, the unholy water costs 25gp a pop. That means the wand costs 750+1250gp, aka 2000gp for 50 copies in a fully charged wand.

Oh, and I am using exact average hp restoration rolls to estimate value.

As a costless spell component, every spell component pouch comes with an unlimited supply of devil's blood.


What's the rules question?

Grand Lodge

Firebug wrote:
Unfortunately for PFS, those boots are 1/day.

Wow...that makes those boots worthless in PFS...1 time a day for +4 CMD against a few maneuvers and fast healing 1 is not worth anywhere near 5000gp


Volkard Abendroth wrote:
Piccolo wrote:
willuwontu wrote:

A wand of infernal healing (should) only be 750gp, and restores 500 hp in total. This results in a cost of 1.5gp per hp.

By contrast, a regular wand of CLW costs 750gp, and heals 275 hp on average, or 450 hp at most if all dice are rolled maximum. This in a cost of 2.72gp per hp on average or 1.66gp per hp at maximum.

A wand of infernal healing is the cheapest way to restore HP.

I'm unsure what this amped stick you are talking about is, or what the diamond is for. Please explain those.

Nope. You forget that you have to use either a drop of infernal blood, or unholy water. Since that demonic/devlish blood is gonna be REALLY hard to come by, the unholy water costs 25gp a pop. That means the wand costs 750+1250gp, aka 2000gp for 50 copies in a fully charged wand.

Oh, and I am using exact average hp restoration rolls to estimate value.

As a costless spell component, every spell component pouch comes with an unlimited supply of devil's blood.

I disagree. That's not likely to be something that spellpouches would contain. You are making assumptions that aren't in evidence. Do you actually believe some devil somewhere is sitting still for casters to milk them dry of its blood?


blahpers wrote:
What's the rules question?

I just wanted to know which form of healing was cheapest in the long run. So far, it's a standard happy stick with a 5000gp diamond (the latter can be reused in other wands) which restores 1d8+3hp per charge, unless I understood wrongly.


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Piccolo wrote:
I disagree. That's not likely to be something that spellpouches would contain. You are making assumptions that aren't in evidence. Do you actually believe some devil somewhere is sitting still for casters to milk them dry of its blood?
Spell Component Pouch wrote:
A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific cost, divine focuses, and focuses that wouldn’t fit in a pouch.

You can feel free to houserule in your games, but RAW a spell component pouch includes all spell components without a specified cost.


Piccolo wrote:
Do you actually believe some devil somewhere is sitting still for casters to milk them dry of its blood?

They're called "Imp familiars". And that's not even counting all those "wild" imps over Korvosa.

And if you think Asmodeus would disapprove of people using his devils like that - No, bloodletting slaves is right up his alley.


The cheapest out of combat healing is level dependant. At lowest levels vs medium it changes based on funds.

However, at level 11 out of combat healing is free and infinite with a summoner. This would make it the most cost effective as it would be 0 gp for for never ending supply of hp

Sovereign Court

Cavall wrote:

The cheapest out of combat healing is level dependant. At lowest levels vs medium it changes based on funds.

However, at level 11 out of combat healing is free and infinite with a summoner. This would make it the most cost effective as it would be 0 gp for for never ending supply of hp

Presumably by summoning a Lillend Azata via their limited use Summon Monster 6? Summon 5 gets them Bralani Azatas who have Cure Serious 2/day, not quite the additional 9 more Cure Lights from Lillend, but 2 levels earlier. Usually my summoner friends would summon multiple Bralani until they could summon multiple Lillends because 1d3+1 Cure Serious all at once is better during combat.

Don't get me wrong, I have seen excellent healing via summoners (even Occultist using Shadow Beast, you know that Breath of Life that just raised you? It was an illusion). Its just not until later levels and still uses up a limited resource.


Piccolo wrote:

This is a home game, not PFS.

Unfortunately, the party Cleric wants to be a necromancer, and control a small gang of undead as cannon fodder. To that end, he has negative energy channeling. When we hit 3rd level, maybe I can sweet talk the player into taking Versatile Channeling, but that feat deducts 2 levels from his channeling of positive energy.

Thus, the need for a really good source of noncombat healing.

Does the cleric have the undead domain?

If so they get the incredibly useful power Death's kiss.

Death’s Kiss (Su) wrote:
You can cause a creature to take on some of the traits of the undead with a melee touch attack. Touched creatures are treated as undead for the purposes of effects that heal or cause damage based on positive and negative energy. This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum 1). It does not apply to the Turn Undead or Command Undead feats. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

This allows them to use their channels and spontaneous spells to heal party members. Sure, most of this healing will be out of combat but if you're trying to rely on consumables this is what you're already doing. This is how I healed my party with my necromancer and it worked well enough. On a side note, used offensively this is pretty evil since the target doesn't get a save and it effectively cuts them off from normal healing for its duration.

In terms of efficient healing. They should pick up a lesser strand of prayer beads. For just a little over 9k, It lets them cast cure serious wounds 1/day forever. Even just using it to augment a wand will make it so that wand lasts a lot longer.


Firebug wrote:

Presumably by summoning a Lillend Azata via their limited use Summon Monster 6? […]

Don't get me wrong, I have seen excellent healing via summoners (even Occultist using Shadow Beast, you know that Breath of Life that just raised you? It was an illusion). Its just not until later levels and still uses up a limited resource.

I think they mean giving the Eidolon the Fast Healing and Sacrifice evolutions.

Sacrifice allows the Eidolon to use a standard action to… well, sacrifice 2 HP per HD, to heal someone else for 1 HP per Eidolon-HD.
Fast Healing is exactly what it says on the tin.

Hence, infinite out of combat healing.
Not the worst thing a chained Summoner can pull off, I guess. (Unchained Eidolons can't get the Sacrifice evolution.)


Ish. Yet another reason why I ban Summoners. They're broken.

No, the cleric doesn't have undead domain. Currently she worships Pharasma, and has the death and healing domains. Might switch to urgathoa and have the death and magic domains instead.


Pan, definitely not a Kitsune wrote:
Piccolo wrote:
Do you actually believe some devil somewhere is sitting still for casters to milk them dry of its blood?

They're called "Imp familiars". And that's not even counting all those "wild" imps over Korvosa.

And if you think Asmodeus would disapprove of people using his devils like that - No, bloodletting slaves is right up his alley.

The campaign is very far away from Korvosa, and there aren't enough evil aligned wizards willing to drain their familiars dry of blood in existence to make devil blood free.

Not good enough.


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Piccolo wrote:
Pan, definitely not a Kitsune wrote:
Piccolo wrote:
Do you actually believe some devil somewhere is sitting still for casters to milk them dry of its blood?

They're called "Imp familiars". And that's not even counting all those "wild" imps over Korvosa.

And if you think Asmodeus would disapprove of people using his devils like that - No, bloodletting slaves is right up his alley.

The campaign is very far away from Korvosa, and there aren't enough evil aligned wizards willing to drain their familiars dry of blood in existence to make devil blood free.

Not good enough.

Imps have fast healing. Their body magically replenishes any blood loss at a pretty decent rate, so all it would take is a single morally-compromised wizard in an area to flood the market with imp blood such that a drop is basically nothing.

Some math: a blood drive will take about a 1/2 liter of blood from a human, which heals with a couple day's rest- say that's 1 HP of blood (not exact, obviously, but it's an estimation). Imps, as Tiny creatures, let's say have 1/16th the blood of a human, so 1 HP of blood for them is about 30 mL of blood. That might not sound like a lot, but they can give twice that much every six seconds with an efficient setup, and a 'drop' is .05 mL, meaning that every six seconds an imp is being bled by its master, it provides enough blood for 1200 castings of Infernal Healing (2 HP/round, its fast healing amount). Even accounting for a lot of variance in how much blood loss amounts to 1 HP, how much blood an imp has, and so on, even a minute of bleeding would be plenty, distributed along the normal channels for spell components.


I run it the same way, Piccolo, but it is indeed a house rule:

Spell component pouch wrote:
A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for components that have a specific cost, divine focuses, and focuses that wouldn’t fit in a pouch. Most spell component pouches are waterproof and can be strung onto a belt or bandolier.

Devil's blood has no specific cost as far as I know. A caster is assumed to have enough to power their spells at any given time, though the GM is always free to adjust for circumstances if they like. ("You've been stranded in on this tiny island for weeks, and you finally used up your last shaving of licorice root. No more haste for you.") Eschew Materials would get around it in any case.

Sovereign Court

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Piccolo wrote:
Pan, definitely not a Kitsune wrote:
Piccolo wrote:
Do you actually believe some devil somewhere is sitting still for casters to milk them dry of its blood?

They're called "Imp familiars". And that's not even counting all those "wild" imps over Korvosa.

And if you think Asmodeus would disapprove of people using his devils like that - No, bloodletting slaves is right up his alley.

The campaign is very far away from Korvosa, and there aren't enough evil aligned wizards willing to drain their familiars dry of blood in existence to make devil blood free.

Not good enough.

Imps have fast healing so unless you are ruling blood donation as Con Damage they'll heal it right up as noted above.

Tiefling exist, as does Lesser Planar Binding for a Lemure/Nupperibo/Gaav/Zebub, or regular Planar Binding for 3 with the service being blood donation. A Lemure is a Medium sized outsider, so probably has a couple pints to spare each. According to google, a pint of water is about 10k drops (9,463.53), so using spellcasting services for Magic Circle against Evil and Planar Binding(for 3 Lemures) for 1 pint each (total 30k drops) = 10x3x5(Magic Circle) + 10x6x11(Planar Binding) = 810gp /30,000 = 2.7 copper pieces per drop.
Give it a 50% markup because retail (so 1.2k gp for 30k drops) and still negligible because that is enough blood for 600 wands. We're talking 2gp per wand here.

Since we're on the subject of non-priced material components... what is the official gp price on the powdered silver required for Magic Circle Against Evil? Hint, in 3.5 it was simply described as "a little".


Firebug wrote:
Since we're on the subject of non-priced material components... what is the official gp price on the powdered silver required for Magic Circle Against Evil? Hint, in 3.5 it was simply described as "a little".

Bless water specifies five pounds of powdered silver as 25 gp. The amount required to make a 3 foot diameter circle on the floor would have negligible weight in comparison. I'd call it covered.


Me personally, I would view blood draining like that to be definitely Con damage. But that's me.

Tieflings are not devils.


Diego Rossi wrote:
Piccolo wrote:

Okay, a normal wand of CLW does 1d8+1 of cure per charge, at 750 a pop.

If you up the caster level to 3rd, you do 1d8+3hp of cure per charge, but it costs more.

The 5000gp diamond that you can reuse ups the caster level by 2 for conjuration healing spells, I got it out of an old 3.5 book Magic of Faerun. Get it?

3.5 =/= Pathfindre

And, probably, it increases your CL, not an item CL. We need the actual text to see how it work.

3.5 does not equal pathfinder. There are so many differences that the advice in conversions is to up the CR by 1 in a 3.5 module for PF1e characters.


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Even with Con damage, just saying, where a blood extraction deals a point, that's still several hundred castings/day. I'd be more interested in finding out where you get licorice root for Haste, which is native to the Mediterranean on Earth, than devil's blood, which is easily gathered by one wizard Binding and bleeding a Lemure to death (which yields 100,000 drops of devil blood).

But I digress. You are free to rule however you like for your game. I just like calculating weird stuff.


=/= is an attempt to write an equals sign with a slash through it, i.e. 'does not equal'


Given that a spell component pouch has a listed weight (2 lbs) it obviously can't hold an infinite supply of everything. It would be handy if it could, of course. The MC of Contact Entity IV for a Star-Spawn of Cthulhu is the corpse of a 10HD humanoid, which has no listed cost. My spell component pouch is full of dead frost giants*.

I think the RAI is that it holds all the materials a caster of any normal level will need to cast all likely spells for the duration of a typical adventure, when combined with the ability to top it up from his saddlebags or Bag of Holding at appropriate intervals. Which means some dozen(s) of items. And each of those items presumably needs a container of some type, even if it's just rolled in a leaf. And you can't afford to muddle them up, so they need to be sorted out. You don't want to pick up a piece of liquorice instead of bat guano by mistake. They're both black gunge but they don't substitute for each other.

Otherwise, a drop of devil's blood is...a drop. Comes in a bottle, will dry out and congeal if exposed to air, anticoagulants notwithstanding and assuming similar behaviour to mammalian blood. Which suggests that it can't be subdivided to the point of negligible price, but the cost for a few castings (= 1 bottle) is the same as that for a few wands (=1 bottle). Which I suggest is non-zero (more than unholy water), but still small compared to a wand. I'd pitch it at around 100gp, though that's just me. Or first catch your devil.

* "Is that a stiff giant in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?"


Mudfoot wrote:
Given that a spell component pouch has a listed weight (2 lbs) it obviously can't hold an infinite supply of everything. It would be handy if it could, of course. The MC of Contact Entity IV for a Star-Spawn of Cthulhu is the corpse of a 10HD humanoid, which has no listed cost. My spell component pouch is full of dead frost giants*.

Funnily enough, a level 1 basic healing spell with a spell component that's more flavor than anything is not equivalent to a higher level spell that's meant to require some amount of murder or skullduggery.

Or do we have some definitive statements straight from the horse's mouth on the subject of Infernal Healing and that the spell component is intended as a serious barrier to casting the spell?


Coidzor wrote:
Or do we have some definitive statements straight from the horse's mouth on the subject of Infernal Healing and that the spell component is intended as a serious barrier to casting the spell?

Not really, but given that Celestial Healing was nerfed into oblivion by the editors (Celestial Healing was, apparently, originally written up as a straight mirror of Infernal Healing, but got published as 1 round / 2 levels, so it breaks even on Infernal Healing at level 20, and is useless for wands), I wouldn't be surprised if the Devs hated Infernal Healing just as much as Piccolo here does.

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