Spellcasting MC for Rogue - advice on which?


Advice


Hey all. Thinking of making a multiclass caster for my rogue with Thief racket. Stealthy build with ranged attacks using daggers and starknife for DEX focus.

What is the best caster MC to take and why for this sneaky build?

Thanks in advance for any guidance. :D


generally speaking, stat wise

WIS>>>Cha>Int

So if you want to go Arcane go Sorc, if you want to go divine go Cleric (primal spelllist is mostly blasts, hence why i said cleric and not druid for the Wis build)


shroudb wrote:

generally speaking, stat wise

WIS>>>Cha>Int

So if you want to go Arcane go Sorc, if you want to go divine go Cleric (primal spelllist is mostly blasts, hence why i said cleric and not druid for the Wis build)

Was thinking of CHA as higher secondary stat. Great skills with CHA like Intimidate that help out a lot.


Kalderaan wrote:
shroudb wrote:

generally speaking, stat wise

WIS>>>Cha>Int

So if you want to go Arcane go Sorc, if you want to go divine go Cleric (primal spelllist is mostly blasts, hence why i said cleric and not druid for the Wis build)

Was thinking of CHA as higher secondary stat. Great skills with CHA like Intimidate that help out a lot.

yeah, generally Cha has much higher impact skills than Int, Wis does have both perception/find traps/sense motive and initiative and Will saves though so it's best to not ignore it as a rogue since those are kinda your bread and butter as well...

So, going Cha, you could focus on Sorc as MC


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Hmm, if you are planing to go down the Cha route, and not planing to pick up ‘Magical Trickster’ I’d say go with either a Bard or sorcerer (occult bloodline). They got a lot of useful spells, especially those that do not have a save.

Invisibility of course is a classic for a Rogue to have, when the battlefield is not conducive to hiding behind something. Invisibility Sphere is a bit higher, but can also aid your less stealthy part members during stealth parts.

Augury is a very nice spell to have, being able to check the likelihood of a plan just before committing to it can be life saving. Doubly so if the plan is for you to scout ahead, so you would be alone if something happens.

Illusory Creature can net a quick flanking buddy, and as many uses outside of battle. (Just don’t expect it to be hitting a lot of the time.)

Illusory object can also act as a control for the battlefield/ provide a place to hide behind.

Heroism is always a great spell, even if casted at lower levels. (+1 to hit is never bad, +1 to saves is life saving, and, as it appears you will be using skills a lot, having a +1 to them is awesome to have both in and out of battle.)

Illusory Disguise can be awesome if you need a disguise quick (bonus points if you make a mundane disguise, such as a man with wrinkles and a mole on his nose, and then make an idealized version overtop of it, using the spell (no wrinkles or mole.). This way, if someone sees through the magic, they think it’s vanity and not subterfuge.)

True Strike for when you really need to hit something / for crit fishing.


shroudb wrote:
Kalderaan wrote:
shroudb wrote:

generally speaking, stat wise

WIS>>>Cha>Int

So if you want to go Arcane go Sorc, if you want to go divine go Cleric (primal spelllist is mostly blasts, hence why i said cleric and not druid for the Wis build)

Was thinking of CHA as higher secondary stat. Great skills with CHA like Intimidate that help out a lot.

yeah, generally Cha has much higher impact skills than Int, Wis does have both perception/find traps/sense motive and initiative and Will saves though so it's best to not ignore it as a rogue since those are kinda your bread and butter as well...

So, going Cha, you could focus on Sorc as MC

Was thinking the following for Halfling Rogue-Thief:

STR 8 (racial -2)
DEX 18
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 16

INT goes towards Society and Lore skills and gives bonus languages as well as extra skill slots. Also need to adjust if choosing Wizard to MC into. CON gives to FORT save and HP. Not sure though if I should go higher (need to go back to background) with WIS (go to 16) if I can swing it or keep stats as they are. Thoughts?


The stats seem to be ok. I'm assuming for Background the stats that were chosen were Dex and Cha, and if you were to rearrange it, you would go Dex and Wis. By level 20, you can get both Wis and Cha to 20 easily, but one stat is going to be 1 less for a good portion of your character career.

Like Shroudb said, Wis a really great stat for Rogue {and for most people in general. Most of what I would say would jus be a repeat of his post). The only slight caveat is, your Rogue would probably be trying to use his Stealth {or possibly Deception in a social situation} for initiative, to make use of the 'Surprise Attack' feature. {His Stealth would most likely be the best mod, however may not happen all the time, and Perception would generally be the assured roll for Initiative. Plus Wis still gives all the other awesome benefits Shroudb mentioned)

Higher Cha, while not really providing a benefit by itself, is really useful for skills. {I am making the assumption you are planning to be a bit of a face, given your higher CHa score, and mentioning picking up additional languages.) As you mentioned Intimidation {Demoralize} it really important to succeed against the target, as regardless of the result, they are immune to it for 10 mins afterwards. Deception can be really good in combat [Feint, in case you have no other way to make the target flat-footed, Make a Distraction for you to hide.} and being able to lie has saved the neck of more then one party. Diplomacy can also be a lifesaver, as a battle never fought is a battle won, and the more friends you make, the safer everyone is.


shroudb wrote:
perception/find traps/sense motive and initiative and Will saves

Rogues don't need it for Initiative generally due to Stealth, and they get Expert Will Saves early.

I mean sure Perception (which you basically just listed 4 times) is good, but they also get the best Perception Proficiency in the game so they don't really need it. Trap Sense the Feat even makes it to where you don't need to use Perception in Exploration Mode to still get a Perception roll (which means you can use Stealth for initiative).

Kalderaan wrote:
Hey all. Thinking of making a multiclass caster for my rogue with Thief racket. Stealthy build with ranged attacks using daggers and starknife for DEX focus.

Go Bard. I'm telling you it's going to be the best bang for your buck and they have an excellent list.

If you can grab Versatile Performance and pump your Performance high, you can supplement a lot of Increases across a lot of difference skills.

That can put you at "Legendary" with Deception, Intimidate, and Performance at the cost of Performance to Legendary (and you qualify for Skill Feats of those Proficiency tiers).

It's literally a match made in heaven.


Midnightoker wrote:
shroudb wrote:
perception/find traps/sense motive and initiative and Will saves

Rogues don't need it for Initiative generally due to Stealth, and they get Expert Will Saves early.

I mean sure Perception (which you basically just listed 4 times) is good, but they also get the best Perception Proficiency in the game so they don't really need it. Trap Sense the Feat even makes it to where you don't need to use Perception in Exploration Mode to still get a Perception roll (which means you can use Stealth for initiative).

Kalderaan wrote:
Hey all. Thinking of making a multiclass caster for my rogue with Thief racket. Stealthy build with ranged attacks using daggers and starknife for DEX focus.

Go Bard. I'm telling you it's going to be the best bang for your buck and they have an excellent list.

If you can grab Versatile Performance and pump your Performance high, you can supplement a lot of Increases across a lot of difference skills.

That can put you at "Legendary" with Deception, Intimidate, and Performance at the cost of Performance to Legendary (and you qualify for Skill Feats of those Proficiency tiers).

It's literally a match made in heaven.

I actually think versatile performance is pretty terrible for a rogue imo. It's NOTHING like "legendary in deception, intimidate and diplomacy" since it covers only a tiny fragment of the skill usage.

you can only use it to specifically Demoralise, Make an impression, and Impersonate. Only those 3 actions. Nothing more.

Rogue specifically has dozens of uses of Deception that aren't Impersonate. From feint to class specific feats, to straight up lying.

Similar for Diplomacy that you won't be able to Gather information or make requests with Versatile performance.

I find the feat in general to be extremely niche.

as for Wisdom:

i listed it 4 times because it has 4 different applications.

you won't always be able to sneak your way into initiative, and the default initiative check is Perception.

you also need it to find traps

you also need it to sense motive.

you also need it to be well, perception.

So yes, a single "skill" that has as many applications is by far the most important "skill" in the game ("" are because it behaves like a skill, but isn't actually a skill)

As for them getting to expert Will soon... so? The more the better. I've never heard anyone saying "oh gosh, i have too much Will saves, i make them almost 60% of the time!"


Primal spells include healing and polymorph-style buffs. IMO they could work well for a rogue.


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Kalderaan wrote:

Hey all. Thinking of making a multiclass caster for my rogue with Thief racket. Stealthy build with ranged attacks using daggers and starknife for DEX focus.

What is the best caster MC to take and why for this sneaky build?

Thanks in advance for any guidance. :D

I went with Int: when I took the wizard devotion at 2nd, I got the last non-lore skill at trained. [and expert in Thievery] ;)

For myself, I went wizard because you can swap out spells with the spellbook and the extra skills known for increasing int.


MC Sorcerer gets 1 spell known, 1 spell slot, per level, for a very long time.

MC Wizard gets 2 spells known, 1 spell slot, per level, for a very long time.

I say go Wizard. Unless you are okay with having a single spell for a long time.

Maybe consider "delaying" the multiclass until later? Put Intelligence at 12 at 1st level. Take Minor Magic (Rogue) at 2nd level. At 5th level, boost up INT to 14, then retrain out of Minor Magic, and into Wizard Dedication.

This would let you keep your DX, CON, and CHA high.


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rainzax wrote:
I say go Wizard.

Also when you go wizard and you defeat an enemy wizard, that new spellbook is new spells for you to add to your book. ;)


Thanks for the advice everyone. Some good things to think about.

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