Dragonslayer's Shield


Rules Discussion


Looking at the dragonslayer's shield and comparing it to lvl 8/9 dragons(young dragons) since its a lvl 9 item it seems as if the average damage from one of these would give the shield the broken condition. A lvl 9 shield specific to fighting two types of dragons doesn't seem like it should be wrecked by the breath weapon of the youngest dragons of that type. At that age the dragons are immune to the specific element of their breath weapon, why isn't the shield far more resistant to that element?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Well, first off, one is a shield, and the other is a dragon. I dunno, I don't really feel like a level 9 shield should make me immune to a level 9 dragon. It's a gosh darn dragon

But let's get into the math. A young blue dragon deals 5d12 with its breath weapon for an average of 32.5

Resistance 10, Hardness 8, stacks for 18 less damage to the shield. It's BT threshold is 16, so it needs to take 34 damage to be one shot. So not average damage, but not much above it.

But... that also assumes you fail your save, and the shield gives you +2 to said save. If you start making that save, the shield will last much longer-- it won't take ANY damage on average if you save for half. So I think the optimal use of the shield probably isn't using it to save 8 HP on a failed save, but only shield blocking when you succeed and keeping that +2 reflex bonus going.

It's also important to note you choose to shield block now after you know the damage, so you have control over whether or not your shield is broken.

That all seems pretty reasonably balanced and very desirable. IMO, the bigger issue with specific shields like this is there doesn't seem to be an explicit way to make higher level versions of them. I will probably let my players use higher grade materials for such projects, which the rules seem a little hazy on.


A good point about taking the shield block action after the save, I had not considered that rule. Considering the dragon in question has a DC 28 (9+ (expert)4 + (shield)2 + resistance 1 + Dex 3 + heroism 1=20) gives them a pretty good chance to reduce the damage by half. The +2 from the shield is a big bonus on that save.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Indeed. Really the reflex bonus is what makes that shield worth having. Well, unless you're a fighter with Reflexive Shield. Then there are better options.

Dark Archive

I resurrected this thread because it is the only discussion of this item, internets you are welcome!

Seriously though...

I am not sure how to apply the +2 from this shield in some cases. "The wearer of this shield gains a +2 bonus on Reflex saves against effects that originate or burst from a point outside his own square, as though he had cover. It does not protect against spread effects."

So this would protect against a fireball, sure. But what about cones, those originate from outside the square. Walls can be placed in an occupied square, or can fall onto someone from an adjacent square but they don't burst or originate really.

Honestly, I could not find a definition for "spread effect" so am not sure what it "doesn't" protect against...

Sczarni

"Spread" was a 1E term:

Spread: Some effects, notably clouds and fogs, spread out from a point of origin, which must be a grid intersection. The effect can extend around corners and into areas that you can't see. Figure distance by actual distance traveled, taking into account turns the spell effect takes. When determining distance for spread effects, count around walls, not through them. As with movement, do not trace diagonals across corners. You must designate the point of origin for such an effect, but you need not have line of effect (see below) to all portions of the effect.

It does not seem to be a 2E term, so I imagine this is another case of the author presuming the 1E term still existed.


talmerian wrote:

I resurrected this thread because it is the only discussion of this item, internets you are welcome!

Seriously though...

I am not sure how to apply the +2 from this shield in some cases. "The wearer of this shield gains a +2 bonus on Reflex saves against effects that originate or burst from a point outside his own square, as though he had cover. It does not protect against spread effects."

So this would protect against a fireball, sure. But what about cones, those originate from outside the square. Walls can be placed in an occupied square, or can fall onto someone from an adjacent square but they don't burst or originate really.

Honestly, I could not find a definition for "spread effect" so am not sure what it "doesn't" protect against...

Where did you find that text? I don't see it in the first or second printings of the Core Rulebook or on Archives of Nethys.

Edit: I just realized that you are talking about the PF1 version of this item. This is the PF2 forum.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Nefreet wrote:

"Spread" was a 1E term:

Spread: Some effects, notably clouds and fogs, spread out from a point of origin, which must be a grid intersection. The effect can extend around corners and into areas that you can't see. Figure distance by actual distance traveled, taking into account turns the spell effect takes. When determining distance for spread effects, count around walls, not through them. As with movement, do not trace diagonals across corners. You must designate the point of origin for such an effect, but you need not have line of effect (see below) to all portions of the effect.
It does not seem to be a 2E term, so I imagine this is another case of the author presuming the 1E term still existed.

It's actually a case of the author writing that description before PF2 existed. :)

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Drat and bebother, I didn't realize this was the PF2E forum. Apologies for my error.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
talmerian wrote:
Drat and bebother, I didn't realize this was the PF2E forum. Apologies for my error.

It's easy to end up in the wrong place after a search. It's happened to me, too.

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