Tumble Through


Rules Discussion


It does not state in the rules that you can use tumble through to avoid AOO's. Just that you can tumble to the other side. I assume that is how it works though. Just need a clarification.

Thanks.

Grand Lodge

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Based on the quotes below I think "Tumble Through" would provoke a AOO. "Tumble Through" has a Move trait and Move trait triggers AOO. But remember not everyone gets an AOO reaction...so it is sort of a guessing game :)

Core Rule Book wrote:


TUMBLE THROUGH [one-action]
MOVE
You Stride up to your Speed. During this movement, you can try
to move through the space of one enemy. Attempt an Acrobatics
check against the enemy’s Reflex DC as soon as you try to enter
its space. You can Tumble Through using Climb, Fly, Swim, or
another action instead of Stride in the appropriate environment

look at the trigger.."Move"

Core Rule Book page 473 wrote:


ATTACK OF OPPORTUNITY [reaction]
Trigger A creature within your reach uses a manipulate action
or a move action, makes a ranged attack, or leaves a square
during a move action it’s using.


LotsOfLore wrote:
Slamy Mcbiteo wrote:

Based on the quotes below I think "Tumble Through" would provoke a AOO. "Tumble Through" has a Move trait and Move trait triggers AOO. But remember not everyone gets an AOO reaction...so it is sort of a guessing game :)

Core Rule Book wrote:


TUMBLE THROUGH [one-action]
MOVE
You Stride up to your Speed. During this movement, you can try
to move through the space of one enemy. Attempt an Acrobatics
check against the enemy’s Reflex DC as soon as you try to enter
its space. You can Tumble Through using Climb, Fly, Swim, or
another action instead of Stride in the appropriate environment

look at the trigger.."Move"

Core Rule Book page 473 wrote:


ATTACK OF OPPORTUNITY [reaction]
Trigger A creature within your reach uses a manipulate action
or a move action, makes a ranged attack, or leaves a square
during a move action it’s using.

That's true, but for me the doubt remains. If you read the failure text it says:

"Failure: Your movement ends, and you trigger reactions as if you had moved out of the square you started in."

This wording seems to suggest that were it not for the fact that you FAILED the tumble, you would not have triggered an AOO ... Confusing.

It seems clear to me.

If you move with a success, you move and get aoo if the enemy has one ( and his reaction available ).

If you fail, you stop before the tumble, so next the enemy, and take an aoo.

Normally, by coming close to an enemy, you don't get any aoo. Only if you move within his reach, use a manipulate, etc...

The use of tumble through is to pass an enemy, not to pass an enemy while being immune to reactions. If you fail you don't pass, and you also are elegible for an aoo.


K1 wrote:


It seems clear to me.

If you move with a success, you move and get aoo if the enemy has one ( and his reaction available ).

If you fail, you stop before the tumble, so next the enemy, and take an aoo.

Normally, by coming close to an enemy, you don't get any aoo. Only if you move within his reach, use a manipulate, etc...

The use of tumble through is to pass an enemy, not to pass an enemy while being immune to reactions. If you fail you don't pass, and you also are elegible for an aoo.

It is indeed, sorry about that, I realized my mistake and deleted the post almost immediately... You must have been really quick to be able to get a reply on my deleted post.


I'm not sure that I support this change from the old Tumble through bypassing AOO's. With AOO being much more rare in PF2, it makes Tumble Through a fairly corner case action, likely to be forgotten for the few instances where it may come in handy.

That's not to say it has no uses, its just severely limited vs. what you could do with it in PF1.

Just my $.02


I don't see how it is "severely limited" vs. the 1st edition version. In the majority of cases, the effect of successful use is identical - you move through a space that you otherwise couldn't, and are not attacked for doing so.


It may very well have just been my experience, but the majority of times I or another player ever considered tumble through was specifically to prevent an Attack of Opportunity. Since that use is gone, I would say it is perfectly acceptable from my point of view to see that as severely limiting the use of Tumble Through.

Relegates that action to a much more corner case scenario to the point that it will likely be overlooked, even in situations that perfectly suit it.


beowulf99 wrote:

It may very well have just been my experience, but the majority of times I or another player ever considered tumble through was specifically to prevent an Attack of Opportunity. Since that use is gone, I would say it is perfectly acceptable from my point of view to see that as severely limiting the use of Tumble Through.

Relegates that action to a much more corner case scenario to the point that it will likely be overlooked, even in situations that perfectly suit it.

It all depends on the style of play the gm sets up. Tumble is still hugely useful, but if your gm doesn't give you reasons to want to do it. Well that is on them.

The lublished adventures so far have included lots of cramped environments and chokepoints where a high dex character tumbling to set up flanking has been optimal.


The Gleeful Grognard wrote:
beowulf99 wrote:

It may very well have just been my experience, but the majority of times I or another player ever considered tumble through was specifically to prevent an Attack of Opportunity. Since that use is gone, I would say it is perfectly acceptable from my point of view to see that as severely limiting the use of Tumble Through.

Relegates that action to a much more corner case scenario to the point that it will likely be overlooked, even in situations that perfectly suit it.

It all depends on the style of play the gm sets up. Tumble is still hugely useful, but if your gm doesn't give you reasons to want to do it. Well that is on them.

The lublished adventures so far have included lots of cramped environments and chokepoints where a high dex character tumbling to set up flanking has been optimal.

That's fair enough. Haven't played any of the published materials yet, in my group I'm currently DM'ing a sort of "Let's Learn the System" free form campaign set up to try out a bunch of the games conventions and differences from PF1. Thus far our parties rogue hasn't had to get into a tight situation. I may write a few in and see if he goes with Tumble through or finds another solution.

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