Unconscious condition and Reflex saves


Homebrew and House Rules


It's a bit odd that unconscious creatures only take a -4 penalty to Reflex saves even though they won't be woken up by the triggering action (for example, if they are dying).

It makes more sense to me that a creature who is unconscious takes a -4 to Reflex saves only if the triggering action causes the creature to lose the unconscious condition. However, if the triggering action does not cause the creature to wake up, the creature instead critical fails all reflex saves.


Nooooope.


Xenocrat wrote:
Nooooope.

If you could explain why the rule works this way it would actually be helpful.


Players don’t like instant death effects. Same reason coup de grace was removed.

And PF1 had a FAQ about why you ALWAYS get your save even when paralyzed or unconscious: part of a reflex save is random luck and variations in the pattern of the fireball or whatever.


Xenocrat wrote:

Players don’t like instant death effects. Same reason coup de grace was removed.

And PF1 had a FAQ about why you ALWAYS get your save even when paralyzed or unconscious: part of a reflex save is random luck and variations in the pattern of the fireball or whatever.

In the death and dying rules, it says that a player character who take damage while dying increases their dying value by 1, or by 2 if the damage results from the attacker's critical success or their own critical failure.

You die at dying 4 (unless you're doomed or wounded). Critical failing reflex saves is not the same as automatic death.


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Lady Funnyhat wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:

Players don’t like instant death effects. Same reason coup de grace was removed.

And PF1 had a FAQ about why you ALWAYS get your save even when paralyzed or unconscious: part of a reflex save is random luck and variations in the pattern of the fireball or whatever.

In the death and dying rules, it says that a player character who take damage while dying increases their dying value by 1, or by 2 if the damage results from the attacker's critical success or their own critical failure.

You die at dying 4 (unless you're doomed or wounded). Critical failing reflex saves is not the same as automatic death.

Critical failing a reflex save does mean automatic death if you're dying 2, which isn't an unusual state to end up in. Being downed by a crit is not an uncommon occurrence.

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