Spellcasters multiclassing


Rules Discussion


So, I have a few doubts about what you can do with multiclassing.

1) Can you use wands and scrolls of any spell of the class you're multiclassing into?
2) Can you use staves of any spell, up to the maximum slot level you have, even if that is the level from your primary spellcasting class (Ex: 5th-level Wizard but with only basic Cleric multiclassing, can cast 3rd-level cleric spells from staves)?
3) Can you add spells from other traditions when you multiclass, using the Learn a Spell activity? Rules say so, but lists seem to be separate. So a Sorcerer Cleric would add spells from their bloodline tradition to their repertoire and divine spells to their cleric list, but could they add (for example) divine spells to their repertoire?
4) Can you use spell slots of your primary spellcasting class to cast spells of your secondary class? I know the other way around doesn't work because the slots you gain through multiclassing are explicitly said to work only for the spells of that class, so I believe this is also no.

Thanks to anyone who will clarify.


Harnak wrote:

So, I have a few doubts about what you can do with multiclassing.

1) Can you use wands and scrolls of any spell of the class you're multiclassing into?
2) Can you use staves of any spell, up to the maximum slot level you have, even if that is the level from your primary spellcasting class (Ex: 5th-level Wizard but with only basic Cleric multiclassing, can cast 3rd-level cleric spells from staves)?
3) Can you add spells from other traditions when you multiclass, using the Learn a Spell activity? Rules say so, but lists seem to be separate. So a Sorcerer Cleric would add spells from their bloodline tradition to their repertoire and divine spells to their cleric list, but could they add (for example) divine spells to their repertoire?
4) Can you use spell slots of your primary spellcasting class to cast spells of your secondary class? I know the other way around doesn't work because the slots you gain through multiclassing are explicitly said to work only for the spells of that class, so I believe this is also no.

Thanks to anyone who will clarify.

Bumping these questions (hopefully)! I have the same question about staves and multiclassing. Can you multiclass just once to gain access to a different spell list, and then use more staves at your primary class' spell level?

Grand Lodge

Harnak wrote:

So, I have a few doubts about what you can do with multiclassing.

1) Can you use wands and scrolls of any spell of the class you're multiclassing into?
2) Can you use staves of any spell, up to the maximum slot level you have, even if that is the level from your primary spellcasting class (Ex: 5th-level Wizard but with only basic Cleric multiclassing, can cast 3rd-level cleric spells from staves)?
3) Can you add spells from other traditions when you multiclass, using the Learn a Spell activity? Rules say so, but lists seem to be separate. So a Sorcerer Cleric would add spells from their bloodline tradition to their repertoire and divine spells to their cleric list, but could they add (for example) divine spells to their repertoire?
4) Can you use spell slots of your primary spellcasting class to cast spells of your secondary class? I know the other way around doesn't work because the slots you gain through multiclassing are explicitly said to work only for the spells of that class, so I believe this is also no.

Thanks to anyone who will clarify.

Not 100% certain, but this is how I would run it.

1) Yes. You gain spell casting of the appropriate tradition and gain access to that spell list. (though your spell-casting skill in that tradition is likely lower)
2) You charge the staff with the highest level spell slot you have (regardless of tradition), but spells cast from the second tradition would use your (likely lower) spellcasting skill level.
3) No. A sorcerer (unless divine bloodline) may not add divine spells to his sorcerer repertoire. you always add spell to your repertoire from the tradition you that class corresponds to.
4) No. The spell slots are separate between traditions. Ie, you cannot use an occult slot to cast a divine spell.

The Exchange

Recent discussion on this topic

As far as I can tell in regards to questions:
1 (wands/scrolls) and 2 (Staves):
Yes, you would be able to use any spell on a staff that appeared on either your primary or MCD spell list as long as you have a spell slot of the appropriate level from either source. Also, the spells from the staff gain your tradition and spell DC (p592)
3 (spells from other lists to repertoire):
No, the rules say you can add spells to your repertoire you find from your Tradition (p193) which is different from Domain, School, etc. So no you cannot add divine spells to your Primal repertoire (for example).
4 (spell slot usage)
No, Sorcerer states you can cast spells from your repertoire (p193). It does not say you can cast spells from other sources using the sorcerer spell slots


Thanks guys! Hmm, so regarding #2, can you cast spells from a staff for both your main and multiclass domain at the highest level you can cast on your main domain? Like, if I am a level 5 wizard and i only take one feat in cleric, can I still use level 3 divine spells from a staff?

Grand Lodge

Quietpaw wrote:
Thanks guys! Hmm, so regarding #2, can you cast spells from a staff for both your main and multiclass domain at the highest level you can cast on your main domain? Like, if I am a level 5 wizard and i only take one feat in cleric, can I still use level 3 divine spells from a staff?

After further review: pg 592 CRB "You can cast a spell from a staff only if you have that spell on your spell list, are able to cast spells of the appropriate level, and expend a number of charges from the staff equal to the spell's level".

So, if you cannot cast level 3 divine spells, then you also cannot use the staff to do so.

The Exchange

Jared Walter 356 wrote:
Quietpaw wrote:
Thanks guys! Hmm, so regarding #2, can you cast spells from a staff for both your main and multiclass domain at the highest level you can cast on your main domain? Like, if I am a level 5 wizard and i only take one feat in cleric, can I still use level 3 divine spells from a staff?

After further review: pg 592 CRB "You can cast a spell from a staff only if you have that spell on your spell list, are able to cast spells of the appropriate level, and expend a number of charges from the staff equal to the spell's level".

So, if you cannot cast level 3 divine spells, then you also cannot use the staff to do so.

Not quite. This is where people are disagreeing

We all agree that "You have to be able to cast spells of the appropriate level."

However, I and others hold that the ONLY requirement here is that you can cast spells of the appropriate level. The casting level ability does NOT have to be of that particular list, just the ability to cast a spell of the appropriate level (even if it is from a different list). It is quite explicit about the LEVEL (or relative power) BUT does not specify list. It would have been quite easy to say "... are able to cast spells of the appropriate level from that list ..." (edited to align with actual CRB language)
While you are free to house-rule the more restrictive reading, it is not RAW. You can even argue that it might be RAI but that would be based upon an opinion as to how staffs should work and not the actual rule

Also, it would not require a specific list since spells can appear on multiple lists and staffs are not tied to a tradition

Grand Lodge

Garulo wrote:


Not quite. This is where people are disagreeing

We all agree that "You have to be able to cast spells of the appropriate level."

I would maintain that a level 3 arcane slot is not of the appropriate level for remove disease, with requires level 3 primal or divine spellcasting. They could have also said "able to cast spells of the same level as the spell" which would clearly allow any tradition.

The Exchange

Jared Walter 356 wrote:
Garulo wrote:


Not quite. This is where people are disagreeing

We all agree that "You have to be able to cast spells of the appropriate level."

I would maintain that a level 3 arcane slot is not of the appropriate level for remove disease, with requires level 3 primal or divine spellcasting. They could have also said "able to cast spells of the same level as the spell" which would clearly allow any tradition.

In the absence of any such clarifying sentence, then I would go with what they wrote (and did not write). When you use the word "appropriate," then you are adding opinion as to what is appropriate. As I said, it is always cool in home-rules to add that restriction (just like some DMs I know restrict the Healing Staff to Divine spellcasters since only that list has all the spells at all tiers and is thus the staff is only "appropriate" for that list)

The Exchange

Additional considerations

Spells in staffs are not Divine, Primal, etc. The spells take on your own tradition (p 592). Thus, there is NO list inherent in a staff, there is only your knowledge represented by access to a list

The creator of the staff has already cast all the spells and bound the "templates". The user just powers up the staff by feeding energy into it and then activates the templates. If they have the theory of the spell from being on their spell list, why is it inappropriate to say they can activate it?

*Edit - I have posted this question on the rules thread and hopefully we can get an official response at some point.


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Thanks again! It's really nice to read both sides of the discussion. And thanks for posting it to the rules thread, Garulo!

I think that for now, at my table I'll rule it that my theoretical lvl 5 Arcane Wizard with a single multiclass feat in Divine can use staves for both domains at 3rd level. It allows a little more flexibility in handing staves out as treasure, especially to fill some gaps in my players' capabilities.

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