Bleed Damage


Rules Discussion

The Exchange

In PF1, bleed damage would be stopped with any healing. I cannot find that language in PF2 and only find the Medicine skill impacting bleed. Can someone let me know where in CRB, it might mention healing stopping Bleed damage (it would be very odd if it did not)


Bleed is only stopped by magical healing that restores you to maximum HP.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Page 461 in the side bar is where it states this, but it is a guideline.

Quote:


The GM decides how your help works, using the following examples as guidelines.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I thought Bleed was just a type of Persistent Damage (p452). As such, wouldn’t it be stopped by a DC15 flat check (p261)?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Slamy Mcbiteo wrote:

Page 461 in the side bar is where it states this, but it is a guideline.

Quote:


The GM decides how your help works, using the following examples as guidelines.

there is no sidebar on 461?


JamesMaster wrote:
I thought Bleed was just a type of Persistent Damage (p452). As such, wouldn’t it be stopped by a DC15 flat check (p261)?

Very much this apart that most of it is noted on page 621.

Bleeding can be stopped by healing to max HP as already mentioned or by succeeding an automatic (end of round) or active/assisted/helped DC15 flat check (Medicine in case of Bleeding).


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

So this is what my group spent most our planned game session discussing. Bleed damage.

Here's what we found:

1) Bleed is a kind of Persistent Damage (p. 452).

2) Every time you take Persistent Damage, you gain a DC 15 flat check to end the condition (p. 621).

3) Persistent Damage -usually- ends after a minute (p. 621).

3) Magical Healing does not stop Bleed unless you are fully healed (p. 621)

4) However, non-magical healing -can- stop bleed. The "Administer First Aid" action (part of the Medicine skill) can stop bleed. (p. 248).

And that's where things get really weird.

Notice that if you are trained in Medicine and have healer's tools, you can A) attempt a Medicine check which, if successful, will allow the bleeding character to B) roll another flat check to stop the bleeding.

Why is this weird? Well, look at p. 621 under "Assisted Recovery". There, we're told that if you do something that would reasonably improve your chances of ending the Persistent Damage, the GM can decide what happens. Among the examples given is "use Medicine to Administer First Aid to stanch bleeding."

And an example of what might result is given as: "Reduce the DC of the flat check to 10 for a particularly appropriate type of help..."

Hooookay.

So if I use "Administer First Aid" I can gain a chance to roll against the DC that caused the bleed. But if I do the exact same thing and call it "Assisted Recovery" I can roll against DC 10?

One suggested interpretation was that doing it p. 248's way meant an additional roll before the bleed damage takes place again (since it occurs at the end of the bleeding character's turn), whereas doing it p. 621's way got you a DC 10 check. But even then, one DC 10 check is much better than two DC 15 checks.

So, can somebody riddle this out for me? What's really going on here? What am I missing?

Also, what if I don't have a Healer's kit, but I do apply pressure to the wound, or put on a tourniquet? Should I give a bonus to the DC 15 flat check? If so, then why would I -ever- not do that?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Tarondor wrote:

So, can somebody riddle this out for me? What's really going on here? What am I missing?

Also, what if I don't have a Healer's kit, but I do apply pressure to the wound, or put on a tourniquet? Should I give a bonus to the DC 15 flat check? If so, then why would I -ever- not do that?

Surely the simplest solution to the riddle is that p.248 and p.621 apply jointly, i.e. in the case of First Aid to stop Bleed, the extra flat check you obtain for the victim is at DC 10, not 15. The victim only rolls against DC 15 in the absence of any "particularly appropriate" help.

If you don't have a Healer's Kit, anything else that helps stop bleeding, at GM discretion, could certainly reduce the DC. And for the good of your bleeding-out ally, you should totally always do that "particularly appropriate" thing.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Tarondor wrote:


So if I use "Administer First Aid" I can gain a chance to roll against the DC that caused the bleed. But if I do the exact same thing and call it "Assisted Recovery" I can roll against DC 10?

assisted recovery is the same as administer first aid. It will let you get an extra roll, before more damage is delt.

GM can make the extra roll DC 10 if you have extra special. Like water on fire. Or just flat end it, if you submerge fire in water, or healed someone to max HP.

I would personally add expert medicine gets DC 10, master gets DC 5, and legendary can just end it.

Also, nothing stops the whole party from trying every turn. So even a DC 15 won't last long after battle.


I assume that you can use administer first aid two ways

One to give them the immediate roll
and one to give them a lower DC for the end of turn check.


Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

It would be nice to get a ruling on this.

Sovereign Court

logsig wrote:
Tarondor wrote:

So, can somebody riddle this out for me? What's really going on here? What am I missing?

Also, what if I don't have a Healer's kit, but I do apply pressure to the wound, or put on a tourniquet? Should I give a bonus to the DC 15 flat check? If so, then why would I -ever- not do that?

Surely the simplest solution to the riddle is that p.248 and p.621 apply jointly, i.e. in the case of First Aid to stop Bleed, the extra flat check you obtain for the victim is at DC 10, not 15. The victim only rolls against DC 15 in the absence of any "particularly appropriate" help.

If you don't have a Healer's Kit, anything else that helps stop bleeding, at GM discretion, could certainly reduce the DC. And for the good of your bleeding-out ally, you should totally always do that "particularly appropriate" thing.

I think Logsig has it right, and I would further add that any magical healing, even if it doesn't get you to full hit points, would count as a Particularly Appropriate response to the bleeding and give the bleeder a DC 10 check.


Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I could be persuaded that you're right. But I'm surprised that Paizo didn't spell such things out clearly and put everything on one page of the Core Rulebook. It's not like the Bleed rules are an obscure corner situation.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Rules Discussion / Bleed Damage All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.