Displacement + Mirror Image


Rules Questions

Sczarni

Party is facing an Atrocite under the effects of displacement and mirror image. Initially my order of operations was going to be:

Option #1: Roll to see if you successfully target the Atrocite, then,

  • If you do, roll miss chance.
  • If you don't, destroy an image.

    But then I read this line from mirror image: "an attack that misses you due to a miss chance also destroys an image". So should I instead:

    Option #2: Roll miss chance first, then,

  • If attack misses, automatically destroy an image.
  • If attack hits, determine whether image is destroyed.

    The second option isn't how I would intuitively have run it, but after reading it over, is this how most people do?


  • Starfinder Charter Superscriber

    Good catch! I probably would have run it like the first example but f you had not pointed this out.


    Eehh. I would read that RAI as 'an attack that misses you due to the miss chance caused by Mirror Image also destroys an image'.

    So I would run it as:

    1) Make the attack roll. If it succeeds
    2) Roll the miss chance of displacement. If that succeeds
    3) Roll randomly for hitting a mirror image or hitting the actual character.

    1) Make the attack roll. If it misses by 5 or less
    2) Roll the miss chance of displacement. If that succeeds
    3) Destroy an image.

    If the attack roll misses by more than 5, or if the roll for displacement misses, then the attack has no effect and no images are at risk.

    Sczarni

    There is no miss chance with Mirror Image, tho.


    breithauptclan wrote:

    Eehh. I would read that RAI as 'an attack that misses you due to the miss chance caused by Mirror Image also destroys an image'.

    A pathfinder FAQ clarified that your miss chance from blur or the like would not help your images.


    Nefreet wrote:
    There is no miss chance with Mirror Image, tho.

    The chance that an attack misses you because it hits an image... What is that normally called?

    Mirror Image wrote:
    Whenever you are attacked or are the target of a spell that requires an attack roll, there is a possibility that the attack targets one of your images instead. If the attack hits, roll randomly to see whether the selected target is real or a figment.


    breithauptclan wrote:
    Nefreet wrote:
    There is no miss chance with Mirror Image, tho.

    The chance that an attack misses you because it hits an image... What is that normally called?

    Mirror Image wrote:
    Whenever you are attacked or are the target of a spell that requires an attack roll, there is a possibility that the attack targets one of your images instead. If the attack hits, roll randomly to see whether the selected target is real or a figment.

    Miss chance is otherwise used exclusively to refer to percentile rolls as with concealment, is it not? IE, it's a case of this being a rules term rather than a "common understanding" term?


    BigNorseWolf wrote:
    breithauptclan wrote:

    Eehh. I would read that RAI as 'an attack that misses you due to the miss chance caused by Mirror Image also destroys an image'.

    A pathfinder FAQ clarified that your miss chance from blur or the like would not help your images.

    I actually can't find the Pathfinder FAQ. I see the Starfinder one in the main menu. And the Organized Play FAQ - is that the right one?


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    Mirror Image and Miss Chance: If I have a miss chance and a mirror image, how do I combine them?

    Miss chances generally only apply when an attack hits. For most miss chances, such as blur, there’s no need to roll them if an attack would hit a mirror image because a hit and a miss by 5 or less would both pop the image. The only exception to this rule is blink and similar effects, which already have some other exceptions from normal miss chances due to moving you to another plane (for instance, unlike other miss chances, blink protects you from targeted effects). The 50% chance to be on the Ethereal Plane protects both the caster and the images.
    posted August 2017


    Nerdy Canuck wrote:
    Miss chance is otherwise used exclusively to refer to percentile rolls as with concealment, is it not? IE, it's a case of this being a rules term rather than a "common understanding" term?

    OK. So calling the scenario of hitting an image from Mirror Image a 'miss chance' is poor form because it gets confused with the 'miss chance' rolled with percentile dice from concealment effects. Makes sense.

    -------

    So taking the ruling on concealment plus mirror image from Pathfinder as being applicable (the spell looks to be identical, so I don't see why we shouldn't).

    Then:

    1) Roll attack. If it hits
    2) Roll 1d5, 1d4, 1d3, 1d2 (as appropriate) for hitting an image instead of the actual character.
    3a) If the attack hits the character, roll miss chance from blur.
    3b) If the attack hits an image, destroy an image.

    1b) If the attack misses by 5 or less, destroy an image.

    Does that sound right?


    That is close.

    Here is how I understand it.

    1: Roll attack. if it hits go to 2, if it misses by 5 or less destroy an image.

    2: Roll 1d5, 1d4, 1d3, 1d2 (as appropriate) for hitting an image instead of actual character. If attack hits an image go to 3a. If attack hits actual character go to 3b.

    3a. Destroy an image.

    3b. Roll miss change from blur. If misses destroy an image. If hits deal damage.


    So destroying an image on a failed attack because of the blur chance is in line with destroying an image for failing the attack roll by 5 or less, yes? That's the reason for that?


    Yes it is.

    It is how the mirror image spell is written.


    breithauptclan wrote:
    So destroying an image on a failed attack because of the blur chance is in line with destroying an image for failing the attack roll by 5 or less, yes? That's the reason for that?

    Yeah, the image can look like you (all blurry) but an image can't look like anything that it isn't: in order to look like blurry you it has to be bigger than blurry you.


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    For the mechanics, I am fine with that. It seems properly balanced and such.

    But what strikes me as odd is that if I successfully hit blurry you, but the shot hits nothing because you weren't quite there where I shot you at, why does that destroy an image that I didn't hit?

    Maybe I am envisioning either blur or mirror image wrong.


    breithauptclan wrote:

    For the mechanics, I am fine with that. It seems properly balanced and such.

    But what strikes me as odd is that if I successfully hit blurry you, but the shot hits nothing because you weren't quite there where I shot you at, why does that destroy an image that I didn't hit?

    Maybe I am envisioning either blur or mirror image wrong.

    There's 5 of "you" in a phone booth (5 by 5 space) if you were that close you hit SOMETHING


    So a technomancer with a +0 dex bonus and +18 armor has a total AC of 28, yes? He casts only Mirror Image (leaving blur out of it for now).

    (assuming I succeed at the d5- check for targeting the right thing)

    So if my total attack roll is 26, that is a miss by less than 5. And it is entirely due to the armor. So I hit his armor - and destroy the image standing 2.2 feet away.

    But if I rolled a little bit better and got a 31, then I hit the chink in the armor and the image 0.3 feet away is fine.

    ------

    Like I said, it isn't completely unworkable. Probably quite a bit more reasonable than hiding behind a curtain that ends 18 inches off the floor - and I can work around that one.

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