Don't lie Anathema and champion


Rules Discussion


I do not see a lose-lose situation but this is a wrong one.

Quote:
You follow a code of conduct, beginning with tenets shared by all champions of an alignment (such as good), and continuing with tenets of your cause. Deities often add additional strictures (for instance, Torag’s champions can’t show mercy to enemies of their people, making it almost impossible for them to follow the redeemer cause). Only rules for good champions appear in this book. Tenets are listed in order of importance, starting with the most important. If a situation places two tenets in conflict, you aren’t in a no-win situation; instead, follow the more important tenet. For instance, as a paladin, if an evil king asked you if you’re hiding refugees so he could execute them, you could lie to him, since the tenet against lying is less important than preventing harm to innocents. Trying to subvert your code by creating a situation that forces a higher tenet to override a lower tenet (for example, promising not to respect authorities and then, to keep your word, disrespecting authorities) is a violation of the champion code.

Which is okay... but?

Quote:

All champions of good alignment follow these tenets.

You must never perform acts anathema to your deity or willingly commit an evil act, such as murder, torture, or the casting of an evil spell.
You must never knowingly harm an innocent, or allow immediate harm to one through inaction when you know you could reasonably prevent it. This tenet doesn’t force you to take action against possible harm to innocents at an indefinite time in the future, or to sacrifice your life to protect them.

If a champion has a anathema to not lie and he is in the same situation as the exemple... This mean he still need to say the truth. Because breaking an anethema is higher priority that knowingly harm an innocent.

Sovereign Court

It would depend on the deity you follow. There is literally an entire book dedicated to Gods coming out. You could use the PF1 Gods & Magic book as a reference if you wanted to see the difference between the various champions or paladins.

Of course, it's only relevant if you are playing in Golarion. If you are playing in a custom setting, it would all come down to, your GM interpretation.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Gayel Nord wrote:

I do not see a lose-lose situation but this is a wrong one.

Quote:
You follow a code of conduct, beginning with tenets shared by all champions of an alignment (such as good), and continuing with tenets of your cause. Deities often add additional strictures (for instance, Torag’s champions can’t show mercy to enemies of their people, making it almost impossible for them to follow the redeemer cause). Only rules for good champions appear in this book. Tenets are listed in order of importance, starting with the most important. If a situation places two tenets in conflict, you aren’t in a no-win situation; instead, follow the more important tenet. For instance, as a paladin, if an evil king asked you if you’re hiding refugees so he could execute them, you could lie to him, since the tenet against lying is less important than preventing harm to innocents. Trying to subvert your code by creating a situation that forces a higher tenet to override a lower tenet (for example, promising not to respect authorities and then, to keep your word, disrespecting authorities) is a violation of the champion code.

Which is okay... but?

Quote:

All champions of good alignment follow these tenets.

You must never perform acts anathema to your deity or willingly commit an evil act, such as murder, torture, or the casting of an evil spell.
You must never knowingly harm an innocent, or allow immediate harm to one through inaction when you know you could reasonably prevent it. This tenet doesn’t force you to take action against possible harm to innocents at an indefinite time in the future, or to sacrifice your life to protect them.

If a champion has a anathema to not lie and he is in the same situation as the exemple... This mean he still need to say the truth. Because breaking an anethema is higher priority that knowingly harm an innocent.

If you specifically worship the goddess of honesty, then yes, their anathema takes precedence. Of course, there is nothing preventing you from saying nothing, saying something true but misleading (bad but lower priority), or smiting the evil guy asking, should these be practical.


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Gayel Nord wrote:


If a champion has a anathema to not lie and he is in the same situation as the exemple... This mean he still need to say the truth.

It doesn't. It just means he can't lie without anathema repercussions.

The (paladin of Torag, since this is the most likely character to have this problem) can refuse to answer, or simply start demanding why the questioner wants to know.

That might lead to other problems, like getting hauled off to jail, but just because someone asks a question doesn't mean the paladin is obliged to give a meaningful answer, they just can't give a false one.

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