Buffs to Spells in PF2


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


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While there's been a lot of discussion about spells that have been nerfed in PF2, there hasn't been much discussion about spells that have been buffed in PF2. But I've come across several spells which have been improved in some important respects, as compared to their PF1 counterparts. What buffs to spells have you found?

(NOTE: Although it would also be interesting to see a list of spells that have been nerfed, that's not what this thread is about. So if you want to talk about nerfs to spells, that might be best done in a different thread devoted to that topic.)

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Charm, Suggestion: Once spell manifestations became an explicit part of the PF1 rules, spells like Charm Person and Suggestion became too risky to use against anyone who wasn't already hostile, since the target would know you're casting the spell, and if they made their save, would get pissed off. In PF2, Charm now states that unless the target critically succeeds they think you've only cast a harmless spell. And with Suggestion unless they critically succeed they won't even realize you're casting a spell.

Now, Charm is weaker duration-wise in PF2, since it now lasts one hour instead of 1 hour/lvl. But the 4th level version of Charm lasts until you next perform your daily preparations. From p480, it looks like doing your daily prep is optional, so if you decline to do that it you could extend the duration of this Charm indefinitely... a great thing for a Wizard to do on some key figures before he retires!

Water Breathing: In PF2 this is now a second level spell, giving an hour of water breathing to up to 5 targets, making underwater adventures feasible at lower levels. And the third level version gives you all 8 hours of water breathing, while the fourth level version gives you all water breathing until your next daily preparation, which you could put off indefinitely...

Now, the PF1 version was more flexible, since it gave you 2*lvl hours of water breathing to spread out as you like. But it wouldn't allow you to give 8 hours to 5 people until level 20, and so generally falls far short of the PF2 same-level version with respect to total person-hours it can provide.

Shrink Item: In PF2 this spell lets you shrink any item up to 20 cubic feet in volume, and up to 80 bulk to the size of a coin. In PF1 the shrinking was to 1/16th the size of the original object, making it a little less convenient for certain things (the 20' long scepter of the Storm Giant King is still over a foot long, making harder than a coin to smuggle out of the throne room). That said, the PF1 version would allow you to make ordinary objects (like a coin you're trying to steal) really small, which the PF2 version does not. Call it a wash.

But it's duration which makes the PF2 version shine. The PF1 version lasts 1 day/lvl. The PF2 version lasts 1 day. But the object only expands if it's in a location large enough to accommodate it's normal size. So by putting the Storm Giant King scepter in a small box, you can keep it in its shrunken down state indefinitely. Pretty neat!

The Exchange

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I haven't gone through everyone but here's a few I liked. Overall I think the 4 degrees of success really shine in the save or suck spells of old. Before it was great to land that Dominate Person after spending a full round casting it but when they saved it really sucked cause it felt like wasted round. Now even on a save, the enemy is still getting affected in some way. And doubling damage on a critical fail is going to feel so nice, even more so if it targets an enemy's weakness.

Chain Lightning: 8d12 in PF2 vs the PF1 version that would give you 11d6 when you first get it. The best part of it is you can hit as many creatures as you want without a sliding scale dc and you get the double damage chance on a crit fail.

Color Spray: Gone are the fiddly hit die limitations so everyone who fails, including the boss can get blinded for a minute.

Crushing Despair: Only for the flavor really but the failure effects are great.

Daze: The fact that you have a cantrip that can stun on a critical is just fantastic. I wouldn't have even considered it in PF1.

Dominate: The change to target and dropping it to a 6th level spell means you can control monsters as early as level 11. With the 4 degrees mean even if the enemy makes their save they're still stunned until you prepare spells again.


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Eoni wrote:


Dominate: The change to target and dropping it to a 6th level spell means you can control monsters as early as level 11. With the 4 degrees mean even if the enemy makes their save they're still stunned until you prepare spells again.

Stunned 1 just means lose 1 action (of 3) and it's gone, I believe.

Good finds although I caution that (I think, based on PCs having more HP) HP are much higher in PF2, so the small increased damage to many spells might just be treading water. Not sure.


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Color Spray, Charm, Suggestion, and Dominate all have the incapacitation trait. Read and understand that before you sing their praises - if you don’t heighten them a lot or you try to use them on a boss the target gets a bump on his save result.


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Xenocrat wrote:
Color Spray, Charm, Suggestion, and Dominate all have the incapacitation trait. Read and understand that before you sing their praises - if you don’t heighten them a lot or you try to use them on a boss the target gets a bump on his save result.

Good find; I hadn't picked up on the incapacitation trait.

Though I still think spells like Charm and Suggestion are much more useful now than they were in PF1. You can try to Charm the recalcitrant shop-keeper so that they'll tell you what they know, or Charm the sheriff into letting you go, or what have you, without risking a high chance of them throwing you in jail.


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Are we including powers? The Monk abilities got a few bumps; Quivering Palm and Ki Blast especially.


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Regenerate: In PF1 this spell healed 4d8+lvl and fatigue, and allowed the target to regrow missing organs and reattach limbs. In PF2 this spell is much more interesting: in addition to healing organs and reattaching limbs, it gives the target regeneration 15 (acid or fire) for a minute, and they can't die while from damage while this regeneration is active (though they can be kept unconscious if they're wounded 4 or more). That both heals a lot more overall than the PF1 version, and has much cooler additional effects (conditional immortality!).

Phantasmal Killer: In PF1 this spell allowed a will save, and then if that was failed, a fort save to determine whether you take 3d6 damage or die. The odds of getting something to fail both were pretty high, so this was usually just a waste of a turn.

In PF2 they get a will save, and on a success they still take 4d6 and are frightened 1 -- better than the fail will + succeed fort result in PF1. And if they fail they take 8d6 and frightened 2; iIf they crit fail they take 12d6, are frightened 4, are fleeing for a turn, *and* they need to make a fort save or die. A much better spell.


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Halcyon_Janissary wrote:
Are we including powers? The Monk abilities got a few bumps; Quivering Palm and Ki Blast especially.

Counter performance for the Bard, too.

The Exchange

Porridge wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Color Spray, Charm, Suggestion, and Dominate all have the incapacitation trait. Read and understand that before you sing their praises - if you don’t heighten them a lot or you try to use them on a boss the target gets a bump on his save result.

Good find; I hadn't picked up on the incapacitation trait.

Though I still think spells like Charm and Suggestion are much more useful now than they were in PF1. You can try to Charm the recalcitrant shop-keeper so that they'll tell you what they know, or Charm the sheriff into letting you go, or what have you, without risking a high chance of them throwing you in jail.

I hadn't noticed that either so thanks for pointing it out. Good thing I was already planning on making those my signature spells. I can understand why they did that though. The number of boss fights ended by Dominate has to be pretty high.


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Quivering Palm went from a kinda bland save vs die to a range of interesting damage effects which could, but are unlikely to, still result in enemy death.

If your monk hits and speaks the death word your target is taking somewhere between zero to 100 damage (depending on failure rate and highten levrl) and has a chance of taking stun 1 or (if you're very luck or wasted the strike on a relatively lesser foe) 3. Its utility against bosses and huge monsters remains a bit meh (a pity, since the enormous monsters you're more likely to face at QP level tend to be massive opponents with equally massive fort saves anyway), but the straight necoromatic death effect means it could effect a few targets otherwise resistant to your monks more, generally punching power. A pretty good improvement over the old monk anyway.

The new Wholeness of Body is a huge improvement, now curing 8 hp per heighten level, or about 1/4 your total hp. The ability to counteract poisons and diseases sounds great, but I'm not familiar enough with the dc's for these to make a good reading on how likely the monk will be in Physicianing thine self. In any case, Wholeness of Body is now at minimum a considerable choice. Yay viable options!

Last on the list of improvements is Ki Blast. It's a little tricky to say where this was in the prior system, since there isn't a straight translation from 1E to 2E. The closest are a few Qin powers that translated to d6 damage per level. The standardized Ki Blast here offers a damage progression and size that ranges according to the time investment. With just one action you get a 15 ft cone and a little less than half your level in d6, 2 actions for a 30 ft cone and half to 2/3 your level, or D6 equal to almost your level and a 60 ft. cone for the full 3 actions.

I really like the modular options of this power, allowing you to invest just a little time and pop one off for a minimal effect or take a full round action for a substantial one. That it's force damage is the cherry on your Tian Xia sundae, bypassing almost all resistances. (Assuming monster resistances are similar in 2 to that of 1st edition).

Speaking of edition concerns, I do have a niggling worry in the back of my mind that HP has been significantly inflated. If PC hp is always max plus the race bonus from level one... well, that's a question for another thread. The Ki powers certainly look improved at first blush, I hope that holds out in play.

Liberty's Edge

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Halcyon_Janissary wrote:
Speaking of edition concerns, I do have a niggling worry in the back of my mind that HP has been significantly inflated. If PC hp is always max plus the race bonus from level one... well, that's a question for another thread.

Average HP has gone up a bit, especially at low levels (high level PF1 characters had Con enhancers raising theirs, making the difference smaller than it looks at first glance). Max HP has not (a PF2 Barbarian maxes out at around 400 HP...a PF1 Barbarian can get more than that).


Eoni wrote:
Porridge wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Color Spray, Charm, Suggestion, and Dominate all have the incapacitation trait. Read and understand that before you sing their praises - if you don’t heighten them a lot or you try to use them on a boss the target gets a bump on his save result.

Good find; I hadn't picked up on the incapacitation trait.

Though I still think spells like Charm and Suggestion are much more useful now than they were in PF1. You can try to Charm the recalcitrant shop-keeper so that they'll tell you what they know, or Charm the sheriff into letting you go, or what have you, without risking a high chance of them throwing you in jail.

I hadn't noticed that either so thanks for pointing it out. Good thing I was already planning on making those my signature spells. I can understand why they did that though. The number of boss fights ended by Dominate has to be pretty high.

Yeah, the effort they went to move the "game over" effects to a critical fail doesn't help if you can fish for a critical fail by spamming low level slots against relatively weak foes or just try to be lucky against a boss out of your league by hoping for a 1 on the saving throw.


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Porridge wrote:


Charm Person
Now, Charm is weaker duration-wise in PF2, since it now lasts one hour instead of 1 hour/lvl. But the 4th level version of Charm lasts until you next perform your daily preparations. From p480, it looks like doing your daily prep is optional, so if you decline to do that it you could extend the duration of this Charm indefinitely... a great thing for a Wizard to do on some key figures before he retires!

Water Breathing: In PF2 this is now a second level spell, giving an hour of water breathing to up to 5 targets, making underwater adventures feasible at lower levels. And the third level version gives you all 8 hours of water breathing, while the fourth level version gives you all water breathing until your next daily preparation, which you could put off indefinitely...

I just wanted to note with these two spells that "until your next daily preparation" is even better than you're implying.

Core Rulebook 305 wrote:
If a spell’s duration says it lasts until your next daily preparations, on the next day you can refrain from preparing a new spell in that spell’s slot. (If you are a spontaneous caster, you can instead expend a spell slot during your preparations.) Doing so extends the spell’s duration until your next daily preparations. This effectively Sustains the Spell over a long period of time. If you prepare a new spell in the slot (or don’t expend a spell slot), the spell ends. You can’t do this if the spell didn’t come from one of your spell slots. If you are dead or otherwise incapacitated at the 24-hour mark after the time you Cast the Spell or the last time you extended its duration, the spell ends. Spells with an unlimited duration last until counteracted or Dismissed. You don’t need to keep a spell slot open for these spells.

So you only need to keep one spell slot in reserve, rather than not preparing any new spells at all.


I noticed that same "until next daily prep" applies to Magic Aura, which can be a drag to "actively" refresh every day (not to mention when wanting to apply it to object you don't intend to remain adjacent to).


Lost In Limbo wrote:

I just wanted to note with these two spells that "until your next daily preparation" is even better than you're implying.

Core Rulebook 305 wrote:
If a spell’s duration says it lasts until your next daily preparations, on the next day you can refrain from preparing a new spell in that spell’s slot. (If you are a spontaneous caster, you can instead expend a spell slot during your preparations.) Doing so extends the spell’s duration until your next daily preparations. This effectively Sustains the Spell over a long period of time. If you prepare a new spell in the slot (or don’t expend a spell slot), the spell ends. You can’t do this if the spell didn’t come from one of your spell slots. If you are dead or otherwise incapacitated at the 24-hour mark after the time you Cast the Spell or the last time you extended its duration, the spell ends. Spells with an unlimited duration last until counteracted or Dismissed. You don’t need to keep a spell slot open for these spells.
So you only need to keep one spell slot in reserve, rather than not preparing any new spells at all.

Sure. One spell slot per active spell.


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Lost In Limbo wrote:
I just wanted to note with these two spells that "until your next daily preparation" is even better than you're implying. ... you only need to keep one spell slot in reserve, rather than not preparing any new spells at all.

Nice! That is even better! I love how these kinds of boosts to spells support world-building narrative devices, like how the mercantile Wizard was able to keep the mayor permanently Charmed, or how that elven fey Sorcerer was able to escape the law by hiding in the ocean...

Speaking of which:

Illusory Disguise: The first level version of this spell is pretty much like Disguise Self (albeit with a fixed 1 hour duration instead of a 10 min/level duration). But the second level version allows you to disguise your voice and scent as well, and the third level version also allows you to disguise yourself as specific individuals!

PF1 worked really hard to make it really difficult to disguise yourself as a specific individual, because (I think) they worried about the narrative power this might give the players. I'm really glad they changed their mind about this in PF2. Allowing players to disguise themselves as specific individuals enables another great world-building narrative device, that of the magical imposter taking the place as someone else. And it allows the players to get up to the kinds of crazy hijinks that a lot of players really enjoy. Similar remarks apply to:

Veil: The base version of this spell is now only 4th level (instead of 6th), and disguises up to 10 creatures for an hour. But the fifth level version allows you to disguise their voices and scents as well, and the seventh level version allows you to disguise them as specific individuals!

Now the entire party can disguise themselves as the duke, his wife, and their two most loyal servants in order to convince the mayor to stop the execution, or disguise themselves as the four high-ranking members of Norgorber's cult who they've tracked down, in order to infiltrate the secret cult meeting...


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Some new spells that are great:

Spirit Blast: This is is Disintegrate for the Occult/Divine lists. At 6th level your average damage is 56, vs 66 for Disintegrate, but you don't have to roll to hit (which admittedly can be good for Disintegrate if you boost it with True Strike and get a crit). You fall behind by 4 more points of damage at ever level of heightening and can't affect constructs or inanimate objects, but you can do some tricks against projected images and possessing entities. Good to have the option.

True Target: Mass True Strike, essentially, but against the same target. 7th level arcane and occult, this single action spell makes everyone's first attack for the next round (including yours) have the effects of True Strike. A FANTASTIC opening buff when combined with Inspire Heroics from a Bard - everyone gets +2/3 to attack for the next round and can spend their first attack on the designated target to crit fish.

Dissapperance: Ultimate Invisibility, ten minutes. Only a successful Perception vs. Stealth is going to locate you, special senses need not apply. Comparable to a late splat 9th level spell that had a big material cost whose name I forget.


Awesome, I never understood why Disappearing Dust which was relatively low cost item was stronger than any Invisibility spell in the book. (re: See Invisible immunity, random duration was another matter)


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Porridge wrote:

Charm, Suggestion: Once spell manifestations became an explicit part of the PF1 rules, spells like Charm Person and Suggestion became too risky to use against anyone who wasn't already hostile, since the target would know you're casting the spell, and if they made their save, would get pissed off. In PF2, Charm now states that unless the target critically succeeds they think you've only cast a harmless spell. And with Suggestion unless they critically succeed they won't even realize you're casting a spell.

Now, Charm is weaker duration-wise in PF2, since it now lasts one hour instead of 1 hour/lvl. But the 4th level version of Charm lasts until you next perform your daily preparations. From p480, it looks like doing your daily prep is optional, so if you decline to do that it you could extend the duration of this Charm indefinitely... a great thing for a Wizard to do on some key figures before he retires!

Another important thing to note:

I kept looking for "Charm Monster". Or, in fact, any spell to Charm (rather than Dominate) a non-humanoid. After all, Dominate had that Heightened option to affect any kind of target, so why doesn't Charm get the same option?

Turns out I didn't pay attention, since Charm has no restrictions based on creature type, no Heightened required. Sure, some are immune to Emotion and/or Mental effects and the Incapacitation tag limits it, but Charm always had trouble with those and now this one spell works against humanoids, fey, animals, dragons, or whatever else you could cast Charm X on in PF1.
Also means that Aasimars and Tieflings won't have "lesser charm immunity" during low levels.


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Pan, definitely not a Kitsune wrote:
Porridge wrote:

Charm, Suggestion: Once spell manifestations became an explicit part of the PF1 rules, spells like Charm Person and Suggestion became too risky to use against anyone who wasn't already hostile, since the target would know you're casting the spell, and if they made their save, would get pissed off. In PF2, Charm now states that unless the target critically succeeds they think you've only cast a harmless spell. And with Suggestion unless they critically succeed they won't even realize you're casting a spell.

Now, Charm is weaker duration-wise in PF2, since it now lasts one hour instead of 1 hour/lvl. But the 4th level version of Charm lasts until you next perform your daily preparations. From p480, it looks like doing your daily prep is optional, so if you decline to do that it you could extend the duration of this Charm indefinitely... a great thing for a Wizard to do on some key figures before he retires!

Another important thing to note:

I kept looking for "Charm Monster". Or, in fact, any spell to Charm (rather than Dominate) a non-humanoid. After all, Dominate had that Heightened option to affect any kind of target, so why doesn't Charm get the same option?

Turns out I didn't pay attention, since Charm has no restrictions based on creature type, no Heightened required. Sure, some are immune to Emotion and/or Mental effects and the Incapacitation tag limits it, but Charm always had trouble with those and now this one spell works against humanoids, fey, animals, dragons, or whatever else you could cast Charm X on in PF1.
Also means that Aasimars and Tieflings won't have "lesser charm immunity" during low levels.

Aasimars and Tieflings in the Bestiary only have the humanoid trait so it wouldn't have been an issue anyway.


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Xenocrat wrote:
Aasimars and Tieflings in the Bestiary only have the humanoid trait so it wouldn't have been an issue anyway.

Fair enough, hadn't noticed that. It's still nice that now you're only limited by level difference and immunities, not by creature type.

And while I'm at it, to add to the Illusory Disguise thing

Previous post on Illusory Disguise:

Porridge wrote:

Illusory Disguise: The first level version of this spell is pretty much like Disguise Self (albeit with a fixed 1 hour duration instead of a 10 min/level duration). But the second level version allows you to disguise your voice and scent as well, and the third level version also allows you to disguise yourself as specific individuals!

PF1 worked really hard to make it really difficult to disguise yourself as a specific individual, because (I think) they worried about the narrative power this might give the players. I'm really glad they changed their mind about this in PF2. Allowing players to disguise themselves as specific individuals enables another great world-building narrative device, that of the magical imposter taking the place as someone else. And it allows the players to get up to the kinds of crazy hijinks that a lot of players really enjoy. Similar remarks apply to:

Veil: The base version of this spell is now only 4th level (instead of 6th), and disguises up to 10 creatures for an hour. But the fifth level version allows you to disguise their voices and scents as well, and the seventh level version allows you to disguise them as specific individuals!

Now the entire party can disguise themselves as the duke, his wife, and their two most loyal servants in order to convince the mayor to stop the execution, or disguise themselves as the four high-ranking members of Norgorber's cult who they've tracked down, in order to...

It now (again? I think that was how 3.5 handled it) allows you to Disguise yourself as anything with the same "body shape" - not as PF1, "creature of the same Type, but possibly different Subtype".

On the upside, many undead are immediately within reach, as are various constructs, and pretty much anything else that has a mostly humanoid shape and roughly the same size.

It's more of a nerf for "exotic" bodyshapes, since now an aberration can't use Disguise Self to pretend to be any other kind of aberration.

Also, wings might be an issue - I'd be curious if you could make illusory wings (opening up a lot of disguises) or hide wings (allowing Strix to pretend to be another type of humanoid).

The Exchange

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Breath of LifeA verbal reaction heal that let's you heal 4d8 without taking an attack of opportunity.

Collective Transposition The new Dimension Door. A shorter range but with added bonus of you being able to target an enemy.

Drop DeadA former mesmerist trick returns as a reaction invisibility spell that's even stronger than the mesmerist trick since it becomes greater invisibility at the next spell level.

Power Word Blind/Stun/Kill 1 action spells that can follow up any big spell to finish off an enemy. They're uncommon but so worth the work it'll take to find them.


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Figment style illusions as a whole got a massive rework in PF2 and the new direction is much clearer and easier to arbitrate as a GM. Also the durations of things like different image spells were always so short in PF1. moving from 1r/level to a flat minute or hour, with heightening potential was a great improvement. It also gives sorcerers who want to focus on illusion an interesting leg up on the wizard because they can really spam the different level effects without having to sink all of their spells known into it.


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Eoni wrote:
Breath of LifeA verbal reaction heal that let's you heal 4d8 without taking an attack of opportunity.

And a 60’ range (instead of touch) so you don’t have to be right there to save them!


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Mariner's Curse is effectively a death sentence upgrade to Feast of Ashes and the "I'm thirsty" PF1 spell whose name I forget. Permanent Sick 1 removable only by magic means you're going to die of thirst/starvation if you don't find help real quick.

Starvation and Thirst, CRB pg. 500 wrote:
Typically characters eat and drink enough to survive comfortably. When they can’t, they’re fatigued until they do. After 1 day + a creature’s Constitution modifier without water, it takes 1d4 damage each hour that can’t be healed until it quenches its thirst. After the same amount of time without food, it takes 1 damage each day that can’t be healed until it sates its hunger.

That's an average of 61 points of damage per day once you exceed that time limit.


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I'd like to remind people about the remake of the old favourite: Dimensional Steps; 1 action for 20ft jump to safety.

Also, Dread Aura ( https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=526 ) gives out unreduceable Frightened 1 to everyone within 30ft of you. This is a pretty nice debuf so that you can followup with more serious spells.


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Xenocrat wrote:

Mariner's Curse is effectively a death sentence upgrade to Feast of Ashes and the "I'm thirsty" PF1 spell whose name I forget. Permanent Sick 1 removable only by magic means you're going to die of thirst/starvation if you don't find help real quick.

Starvation and Thirst, CRB pg. 500 wrote:
Typically characters eat and drink enough to survive comfortably. When they can’t, they’re fatigued until they do. After 1 day + a creature’s Constitution modifier without water, it takes 1d4 damage each hour that can’t be healed until it quenches its thirst. After the same amount of time without food, it takes 1 damage each day that can’t be healed until it sates its hunger.
That's an average of 61 points of damage per day once you exceed that time limit.

Cup of Dust is the PF1 version. EDIT: Specifically, the I'm Thirsty spell.


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Xenocrat wrote:
Halcyon_Janissary wrote:
Are we including powers? The Monk abilities got a few bumps; Quivering Palm and Ki Blast especially.
Counter performance for the Bard, too.

This is worth saying twice. Countersong was a thing PF1e Bards tended to forget they had, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Counter Performance coming out almost every fight.

When I realized that you can use Counter Performance against Color Spray...


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You know, the incapacitation trait feels like a bit of a kludge, but it does mean that save-or-die spells see a fairly similar drop offs as blast spells. You're better off using your best slots for them. So at least the scales are a bit better balanced.

On Charm, have we mentioned that it now works on all targets at 1st level? Because that is huge.


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Captain Morgan wrote:

You know, the incapacitation trait feels like a bit of a kludge, but it does mean that save-or-die spells see a fairly similar drop offs as blast spells. You're better off using your best slots for them. So at least the scales are a bit better balanced.

One thing I’m appreciating about the incapacitation trait approach is how well it fits the goal of making the game customizable. If they put this in the text of the spell, it would be a pain to houserule out. By making it a trait, it’s easy.

(I wouldn’t houserule it out myself, but a number of people unhappy with the weakening of these spells might want to.)


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Grease area version targets 4 squares instead of one 10' square. Same area, but now it can be used in narrow corridors or shaped to catch more enemies.

Invisibilty Cloak for illusionists is weaker in combat but becomes so much stronger outside of combat. You can cast it silently, and it scales to last for 1 hour letting you refocus and re-cast it to stay invisible for long duration scouting. And with the right feats you can hide all of your spell manifestations.


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True. Freaking. Strike. SO much more usable than PF1 True Strike, which I almost never saw used and even less so when it wasn't Quickened. XP


Xenocrat wrote:
True Target: Mass True Strike, essentially, but against the same target. 7th level arcane and occult, this single action spell makes everyone's first attack for the next round (including yours) have the effects of True Strike. A FANTASTIC opening buff when combined with Inspire Heroics from a Bard - everyone gets +2/3 to attack for the next round and can spend their first attack on the designated target to crit fish.

Hate to say it, but the spell says it applies to "the first attack on the target during the duration", which would mean only one ally gets it. Which kinda stinks, but this could still be great.


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Edge93 wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
True Target: Mass True Strike, essentially, but against the same target. 7th level arcane and occult, this single action spell makes everyone's first attack for the next round (including yours) have the effects of True Strike. A FANTASTIC opening buff when combined with Inspire Heroics from a Bard - everyone gets +2/3 to attack for the next round and can spend their first attack on the designated target to crit fish.
Hate to say it, but the spell says it applies to "the first attack on the target during the duration", which would mean only one ally gets it. Which kinda stinks, but this could still be great.

Considering the short description of True Target reads "Make multiple attacks against a creature especially accurate" and it's a 7th level spell, I would bet it is poorly worded and is meant to apply once per attacker.


Oh, I somehow didn't process that bit of phrasing. That's great then!


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MaxAstro wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Halcyon_Janissary wrote:
Are we including powers? The Monk abilities got a few bumps; Quivering Palm and Ki Blast especially.
Counter performance for the Bard, too.

This is worth saying twice. Countersong was a thing PF1e Bards tended to forget they had, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Counter Performance coming out almost every fight.

When I realized that you can use Counter Performance against Color Spray...

I remember recently being shocked to discover that Countersong in PF1 is not an immediate action (PF1's counterpart to a reaction). About the only time a bard is likely to think to use it in time is if he sees harpies or similar creatures approaching the party.


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MaxAstro wrote:
Edge93 wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
True Target: Mass True Strike, essentially, but against the same target. 7th level arcane and occult, this single action spell makes everyone's first attack for the next round (including yours) have the effects of True Strike. A FANTASTIC opening buff when combined with Inspire Heroics from a Bard - everyone gets +2/3 to attack for the next round and can spend their first attack on the designated target to crit fish.
Hate to say it, but the spell says it applies to "the first attack on the target during the duration", which would mean only one ally gets it. Which kinda stinks, but this could still be great.
Considering the short description of True Target reads "Make multiple attacks against a creature especially accurate" and it's a 7th level spell, I would bet it is poorly worded and is meant to apply once per attacker.

Yeah, I noticed the both Edge93's objection and came to your conclusion. It's otherwise pretty irresponsible for this to be 7th level effect.


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Also, Invisibility has no verbal components anymore, so you don't have to scream fishwaffle to cast it while you are hiding from something and hoping to sneak away. Which is a buff that probably won't come up much but is still an advantage over PF1.


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Captain Morgan wrote:
On Charm, have we mentioned that it now works on all targets at 1st level? Because that is huge.

Whoever mentioned that before must have been quite charming and handsome, and definitely wasn't a kitsune. :P

Exo-Guardians

Unicore wrote:
Figment style illusions as a whole got a massive rework in PF2 and the new direction is much clearer and easier to arbitrate as a GM. Also the durations of things like different image spells were always so short in PF1. moving from 1r/level to a flat minute or hour, with heightening potential was a great improvement. It also gives sorcerers who want to focus on illusion an interesting leg up on the wizard because they can really spam the different level effects without having to sink all of their spells known into it.

But don't Sorcerers have to re-learn spells at every level in order to Heighten them? So it would use up a lot of their spell repertoire to be able to cast illusion spells at multiple levels.


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Not if they choose them as signature spells. Those can be heightened (or lowered down to their minimum level, if they were learned as a higher level spell) at will, and sorcerers get one signature spell per spell level they can cast, so it's not that much opportunity cost.

So, a sorcerer specialising in them gets tons of options.


Saros Palanthios wrote:
Unicore wrote:
Figment style illusions as a whole got a massive rework in PF2 and the new direction is much clearer and easier to arbitrate as a GM. Also the durations of things like different image spells were always so short in PF1. moving from 1r/level to a flat minute or hour, with heightening potential was a great improvement. It also gives sorcerers who want to focus on illusion an interesting leg up on the wizard because they can really spam the different level effects without having to sink all of their spells known into it.
But don't Sorcerers have to re-learn spells at every level in order to Heighten them? So it would use up a lot of their spell repertoire to be able to cast illusion spells at multiple levels.

they can choose one spell per spell level as a signature spell and they can heighten it as much as they want.

with spells like "illusory object" that's basically 3 spells into one it may be worth it for a sorc illusionist.


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Pan, definitely not a Kitsune wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
On Charm, have we mentioned that it now works on all targets at 1st level? Because that is huge.
Whoever mentioned that before must have been quite charming and handsome, and definitely wasn't a kitsune. :P

The descriptive section of Charm on the spell list specifies that it only works on humanoids. The playtest version had a heighten option at 4th to affect any creature. I suspect this may require a clarification given the contradictory information.


andreww wrote:
Pan, definitely not a Kitsune wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
On Charm, have we mentioned that it now works on all targets at 1st level? Because that is huge.
Whoever mentioned that before must have been quite charming and handsome, and definitely wasn't a kitsune. :P
The descriptive section of Charm on the spell list specifies that it only works on humanoids. The playtest version had a heighten option at 4th to affect any creature. I suspect this may require a clarification given the contradictory information.

Ah, that was why I was originally looking for a "Charm Monster" spell/upgrade.

Anyway, actual writeup trumps table summary, so until specified otherwise, Charm charms anything.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Pan, definitely not a Kitsune wrote:
andreww wrote:
Pan, definitely not a Kitsune wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
On Charm, have we mentioned that it now works on all targets at 1st level? Because that is huge.
Whoever mentioned that before must have been quite charming and handsome, and definitely wasn't a kitsune. :P
The descriptive section of Charm on the spell list specifies that it only works on humanoids. The playtest version had a heighten option at 4th to affect any creature. I suspect this may require a clarification given the contradictory information.

Ah, that was why I was originally looking for a "Charm Monster" spell/upgrade.

Anyway, actual writeup trumps table summary, so until specified otherwise, Charm charms anything.

Everything trumps table summary, I try to not to even read them.

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