Feeling a little melancholy


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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So I just purchased the last two items on my wish-list.....a wish-list that has always had a large number of items on it for many years. It's going to be strange to not constantly look to see what is coming out....not anticipating the next months release, and realize the game I loved is no longer producing content.


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Indeed. It was a good run, 10 years is no small amount of time, but all things come to an end.

Part of the fun was indeed checking out new options that constantly came out, if we are lucky, then the 3rd party like some said will continue to hold the flag... who knows, maybe a new "pathfinder" will be born to hold the torch for another 10 years.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If I may make another suggestion, start designing some of your own content. Pathfinder 1e is ended, but the players are still here. I'm personally working on a few conversions, making Temple of Elemental Evil a pathfinder adventure path, and going to do the same with the Dragonlance Chronicles, and will likely convert some more old modules and such. The official line is done, but the game isn't over until no one plays.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I think I understand, OP. I have no interest in an unsupported system (the lack of new PF1 releases was my motivation in switching over to PF2).

I did my melancholy a year and a half ago. Now I have to unlearn the last ten years and learn a new, kindabutnotquitethesame system.


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For my part, I have no interest in learning a new system, not when I still have so much material yet unused from the past ten years.

I came to Pathfinder much later than most, so I still have a lot of first edition sources to explore. I share the OP's melancholy about the lack of new content, at least in a mild way, but I still have a wealth of content to incorporate into my game.


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If the last couple of years (at least) have taught me anything, it's that the system is fun enough without support.

Feel like something's missing? Make it yourself!


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I can understand the OP. I spent hours on these boards every week. But now they will be supporting a system I am not playing. No criticism of Paizo they have to support their new game.

I have nothing against PF 2nd. It just didn't strike my group in as a big improvement.
When you have enough AP to last 10 years and loads of character options yet to try, and £100's already invested why make a change for a marginal improvement.

I feel a hole in my life coming up. I am still interest in the setting so the fiction will still be of interest, as will any guides to Glorantha. But the crunch not so much.


We never purchased modules or adventure paths so the hole in our lives won't be as big as it will be in others. I'll miss the new hardback releases with new spells, classes, feats, etc. But we have all the "main" hardback releases and I have the complete set of the "generic" brown cover 3.5 releases and quite a bit of 3PP material. Between what we already have and back-engineering that I'm sure we'll never run out of things to do.


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If the fluff doesn't change too much (eg goblin PCs -spit-) I'll consider it supported and see no reason to change. There's so much mechanical stuff out there already, it's more a matter of taking things out than putting them in.

It might be harder to find new players, but that's not yet a problem.


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Third party publishers will keep providing good content for Pathfinder 1e if you need it. If you only buy from Paizo, then it's time to suck it up and join them.


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I don't plan on switching over to 2e at all. I switched to Pathfinder from 3.5 because I didn't want to change editions or learn a new system. That includes editions of Pathfinder. I'm going to play PF1 until nobody is left playing it. I don't like the way newer editions of rpgs are going with bounded accuracy, resonance, level caps, and monsters so weak they can be killed by breaking wind at them. There is still a market for 3.5 style games, and someone is going to supply that demand. As soon as someone makes a retroclone of 3.5/PF1 to fill the void, I will be playing that instead, and to the Rough Beast with Pathfinder.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I also miss the upcoming products, haunting the LFGS waiting for it to come in, talking with others at the store, my PFS group, my homegroup about the new options.

Heck, I've even already found the few missing books I needed to complete my collection, so I don't even have that to really look forward to now!

But, like others I have enough APs alone to keep my group playing for 10 years at least. And, like others we don't really want to learn and rebuy a system that is so similar. (We are playing some call of cthulhu and even The Greatest/oldest Game evar, ver 5 or however we're allowed to say it here, and various other systems)

But yeah. It's been a hard year in Change for me: Pathfinder reboot. X-Wing minis reboot, a few other games dying off/changing. Heck even my favorite band seems to be changing styles and leaving me behind. :(

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I hear you and feel the same. I felt briefly this way when 3.5 switched to 4th and I stayed with 3.5. But then PF came out and I was happy.

This time around, I am sticking with Legacy PF; but I am also signed up for Starfinder, so I am at least getting a few products a month.

So it is weird. But my wallet (and my wife) are both ecstatic that I am sticking to my guns and not going 2nd Edition.

I wish Paizo continued success with their new direction.

We First Edition holdouts can still support each other and hang out in threads like this.

Rock on!

Dark Archive

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nighttree wrote:
So I just purchased the last two items on my wish-list.....a wish-list that has always had a large number of items on it for many years. It's going to be strange to not constantly look to see what is coming out....not anticipating the next months release, and realize the game I loved is no longer producing content.

Yeah, with Druma, I think I just got my last PF book, although I might take advantage of it being on clearance and get ahold of the Mythic book, which was the only 1e PF book I didn't already have (a part from a few modules and a bunch of map flip-books and stuff).

It's weird. I wasn't sure if my FLGS was going to even get Druma. They had a shelf full of 2e PF books, and I searched and searched and a week later they had a single lonely copy of Druma, as if as an afterthought, so I had to rescue it and bring it home. :)


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Never in the history of RPGs has the saying...

"Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it."

....seemed for apt.

For the last 3-4 years many PF1 fans called for a "PF2", naively thinking that it would represent the v3.875 that would smooth out the rough bits but keep the existing mechanics, to become the definitive final version.

PF2 arrives but is not remotely what many had hoped for and now the 3.5 era of RPG is drawing its final breath.... :((


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The 3.5 era might die commercially, but it will remain as viable on tables as long as players want it to.


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I have to wonder what proportion of the PF1 player base is moving on to PF2, and what proportion is remaining with PF1.

I am firmly in the PF1 camp, because I've only been playing the game for 3-4 years, and I have no time or money to invest in what's virtually a completely different system. I'm comfortable with PF1, I'm running a game my players enjoy and I have no reason to break that groove.

But after reading a number of threads like this one, I'm really curious how many PF1 players are pulling up and plunging into PF2. Does anyone really know?


From what I've seen in the comments here it seems about 50/50, and that counts people who will be playing both versions.


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Interesting, thanks.

If that translates into a 50% reduction in purchases, Paizo might be in for a choppy ride.


My estimate is just that, so it could be off by a large margin in either direction. It's purely anecdotal, but you're right. It might be that Paizo has some turbulence ahead.


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There are definitely some newcomers (or people who had drifted away from PF1 and who are returning to PF2). So some of the % loss would be covered by them. There's no doubt the release of a new edition hastened the end of meaningful PF1 revenue. The gamble is whether sales of PF2 will more than cover that dropoff.

Fact is, sales of PF1 products were declining - they were in for a choppy ride no matter what. I very much hope the new release schedule and edition allows them to retain the current company size.


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From a business perspective, even if you only get 25% of current players converting, and a similar number of new players, you're likely still getting more sales than you would have if you hadn't released the product.

Both converting and New players are buying the core rulebook.


I have to say I tried to look at PF2 several times and it feels like wading through treacle
Not sure why that it.

I think I’d be more inclined to move over to 5e since it’s so much more played and popular than pf2

And still always start by proposing pathfinder 1 to people I meet who are new. Rather than ever really suggest pf2.


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From a business perspective, I completely understand why Paizo went down this PF2 route, and so in many ways I am not really taking a swipe at them. Its more that it just feels like the end of an era.

By all accounts things were getting financially v.tight with PF1 and with little sign in this trend changing due largely to the massive asteroid like impact of 5e.

A widespread "Unchaining" of PF1 which I think many in the community were hoping for, just wouldn't have made sense financially. Yes it would have solidified their existing client base, and in the short term increased profits a bit. It also MAY have recruited a few new players to the game, but certainly not many. What is certain is that an "Unchaining" style PF2 would not have contributed to the medium - long term financial success of Paizo..... merely delayed their demise by 2-3 years.

D&D played an absolute blinder.... they saw that the average modern tabletop RPG gamer, is a "plug in and play" style gamer, who really isnt going to invest massively in system complexity. To get customers and critically customers who are completely new to RPGs, it has to be something that a newb can pick up after a couple of hours rule reading.

I mean FFS.... Ive been playing PF1 for 7-8 years and I'm still getting rules wrong! LOL


From my perspective playing opportunities for PFS in the Toronto area has declined radically in the last three years. In the meanwhile 5th edition has exploded in popularity. In fact I started playing 5th edition as well as I just cannot find enough local PFS games to play.

I still have a lot of PFS classic material to play but I am wondering if there will be people left to play it. I really like the PFS model of stratified rules and the ability to slowly build up your character with different Game Masters. At this point I have many mid to high level characters that I still want to play and develop. This is what I am going to miss.


This phase that paizo is applying for pf1 to pf2 is like world of Warcraft and classic in time when they don't sell to much from pf2 they will return to create more stuff of pf1 well that's what I think.


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From what I can tell, Paizo has pretty firmly shut the door on any new first edition material.

They're committed to PF2, and we've had no indication they'll suddenly about-face and start kicking out more material for PF1.

I could lament all day about how much I want this or that hardback compilation (Ultimate Feats, Ultimate Classes, Ultimate Spells, etc.) but Paizo has made it clear they won't be doing any of that. They've been completely consistent about that, and I don't see them reversing course.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
Zepheri wrote:
This phase that paizo is applying for pf1 to pf2 is like world of Warcraft and classic in time when they don't sell to much from pf2 they will return to create more stuff of pf1 well that's what I think.

This is a strange analogy. Blizzard/Activation is still creating expansions for WOW , not abandoning it/ only making content for classic.

PF2 would have to fail considerably for them to go back to make PF1 content on regular basis, though at that point, they might also be looking at alternative options.


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Paizo is never going back to Pathfinder RPG. Might as well give up on that now. They've made it more than clear. It's New 'n' Pathy!, something else entirely, or Chapter 11.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I have so much Pathfinder Classic material I haven't used I don't really need new material.

That said, no reason for it to collect dust, so I plan on using both editions.


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I will say, despite the claim that making a character is easier in 2nd edition I've actually found it easier in Pathfinder Classic.


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captain yesterday wrote:
I will say, despite the claim that making a character is easier in 2nd edition I've actually found it easier in Pathfinder Classic.

I find that too, but I really think that it's something that those who have played older systems will struggle with while newbies will breeze through it. Going back to AD&D, I am so used to starting with the numbers, whether rolled or point buy, and then filling in the concept that to do otherwise feels counterintuitive. In theory, I can certainly see that starting with Ancestry-Background-Class should make a lot more sense to people who haven't played before. ("I want to make a gnome paladin who used to be a farmboy" is a sentence normal people say: "I rolled a 18-16-8-12-13-12; what can I do with that?" is not, frankly.)


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Is that so weird? Even if determining ability scores is step 1 in the checklist, unless we're playing oldschool 3d6-straight, I've pretty much always known what race and class I was going to play before I ever started the formal steps--concept first, then refine the mechanics to fit.


Yeah, for the most part I have the character in mind before I sit down to roll or point-buy the stats. The ability scores fill out the character, but they're just numbers; they don't define who the character is.


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Joana wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
I will say, despite the claim that making a character is easier in 2nd edition I've actually found it easier in Pathfinder Classic.
I find that too, but I really think that it's something that those who have played older systems will struggle with while newbies will breeze through it. Going back to AD&D, I am so used to starting with the numbers, whether rolled or point buy, and then filling in the concept that to do otherwise feels counterintuitive. In theory, I can certainly see that starting with Ancestry-Background-Class should make a lot more sense to people who haven't played before. ("I want to make a gnome paladin who used to be a farmboy" is a sentence normal people say: "I rolled a 18-16-8-12-13-12; what can I do with that?" is not, frankly.)

Oh yes, it's definitely a me problem, also I don't have a computer currently so I can't just throw the character sheets on a thumb drive and take it to Kinko's to get printed so I'm doing it all old school with pencil and a notebook.

Also the trained, expert, etc system messed with me for a bit, and the success-critical success/failure system is confusing to me (at least for now).

I love the game, and these are definitely my problem no doubt about that, I just wanted to vent a bit and since I was already here...


Well, when Pathfinder came out I went into 4th edition D&D. No regrets, it was fun. And shortly there after Wizards released 5th ed and as a group we decided to go with a system that was more stable. So we came to Pathfinder. Honestly we're mid way through exploring the system. We'll probably keep playing for a few more years before we even consider moving to a new system. Though, our last campaign was Starfinder.

Honestly, didn't like Starfinder. Space combat is a bit boring. The classes are soldier and not-soldier. And while everything was new, it just didn't really grab me. I've done high tech, futureistic games in multiple systems before. From Traveler, to Star Trek, to Gamaworld and Rifts. Starfinder's setting just didn't sit well. Also mechanically its clunky as hell. Especially the economy.

From what I've herd, Pathfinder 2nd ed sounds a lot like Starfinder. Maybe its fundamentally superior but...I'm just not eager to reach for an unknown. I came to pathfinder because I liked old D&D and WoTC wasn't doing that anymore. I don't think I need to chase Piazo down its new rabbit hole.


nighttree wrote:
So I just purchased the last two items on my wish-list.....a wish-list that has always had a large number of items on it for many years. It's going to be strange to not constantly look to see what is coming out....not anticipating the next months release, and realize the game I loved is no longer producing content.

I get it:-)

But, our group has so many AP's to go through and with the Pathfinder Cthulhu book we're looking at a looong happy run!
We wont be playing the new system, but are hoping for someone to tweek Pathfinder (Looking at you, Stealth and Light!)

Good Gaming to all of you


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Life is rough. One minute you're buying one of the APs, marveling over 15+ levels of well-developed campaign and debating with online gamers about the merits of slings in the current PF game, secretly wishing they weren't so restrictive to use in some builds.

Then suddenly the shelves thin out at the game store. Your online debates no longer have developers weighing in or FAQs being created from them. We all hemmed and hawed with the grey areas of PF1, some of us DID in fact call for a 2e, but when it finally came... when the edition we were playing was slated to end...

Life is rough.

Sure we can make our own content and I intend to keep doing just that. We can also shop 3PP stuff as well. But we no longer have the thrill of seeing something from Paizo drop online or hit the shelves and then, when we have a question about the monster stat block on page 7 being able to have the creators comment on it in realtime on these forums.

It leaves a gap. One of many I suspect that lots of us have in us. I can empathize with the melancholy. Once something is gone we can celebrate it, ritualize it or enshrine it in some way but we can't deny the fact that, officially, its gone.

PF1 is gone.

But we can take solace in each other. The online community for this system is still pretty strong and as long as there's players with cash 3PP folks will likely still put stuff out for us.

I know guys IRL who still play D&D 1e, Marvel Super Heroes and other older games. The 1e folks have gotten new modules at least, after a fashion, with Dungeon Crawl Classics.

So chin up folks. Its a bummer certainly that PF1 is over, but it will live on in the tables and forums where we choose to breathe life into it. We can soldier on. We can endure.

Life is rough. We can choose to carry on through this challenge though. I look forward to the worlds and wonders you will all create and hopefully I can add to them as well.


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Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

Life is rough. One minute you're buying one of the APs, marveling over 15+ levels of well-developed campaign and debating with online gamers about the merits of slings in the current PF game, secretly wishing they weren't so restrictive to use in some builds.

Then suddenly the shelves thin out at the game store. Your online debates no longer have developers weighing in or FAQs being created from them. We all hemmed and hawed with the grey areas of PF1, some of us DID in fact call for a 2e, but when it finally came... when the edition we were playing was slated to end...

Life is rough.

Sure we can make our own content and I intend to keep doing just that. We can also shop 3PP stuff as well. But we no longer have the thrill of seeing something from Paizo drop online or hit the shelves and then, when we have a question about the monster stat block on page 7 being able to have the creators comment on it in realtime on these forums.

It leaves a gap. One of many I suspect that lots of us have in us. I can empathize with the melancholy. Once something is gone we can celebrate it, ritualize it or enshrine it in some way but we can't deny the fact that, officially, its gone.

PF1 is gone.

But we can take solace in each other. The online community for this system is still pretty strong and as long as there's players with cash 3PP folks will likely still put stuff out for us.

I know guys IRL who still play D&D 1e, Marvel Super Heroes and other older games. The 1e folks have gotten new modules at least, after a fashion, with Dungeon Crawl Classics.

So chin up folks. Its a bummer certainly that PF1 is over, but it will live on in the tables and forums where we choose to breathe life into it. We can soldier on. We can endure.

Life is rough. We can choose to carry on through this challenge though. I look forward to the worlds and wonders you will all create and hopefully I can add to them as well.

That . . . that was beautiful, man.


Val'bryn2 wrote:
If I may make another suggestion, start designing some of your own content. Pathfinder 1e is ended, but the players are still here. I'm personally working on a few conversions, making Temple of Elemental Evil a pathfinder adventure path, and going to do the same with the Dragonlance Chronicles, and will likely convert some more old modules and such. The official line is done, but the game isn't over until no one plays.

If you ever finish the conversions pist them here or send me a PM. I would be interested in seeing the conversions.


What I'm really feeling down about is that my group will soon be disbanding, and now I will have to struggle to find a group playing the game that I actually want to play. Finding people that played Pathfinder instead of 5e was difficult when I had to do it a few years ago. Finding a group that plays PF1 now is going to be next to impossible. Sure, there are groups still playing older games, but they are usually made up of friends who have been playing together for years and generally aren't looking for new players. The lack of content, limited customization, number caps, and arbitrary restrictions in PF2 and 5e kill any hope of having fun for me if I try playing those. Jumping ship to a different system that I actually enjoy just puts me back in the same boat of struggling to find people who want to play something other than 5e. So now I will have to spend an unreasonable length of time seeking a new group that's playing what I like the most, play/run a system that I genuinely don't enjoy, or stop gaming altogether.

And that SUCKS.


I hate to hear this. I've had a couple of people tell me they were looking for a PF1e group for pretty much the same reasons you mentioned. I have as many as I can reasonably handle in my group so I had to pass on them. I hated to do it.

Grand Lodge

MidSouthGuy, have you considered playing PF1 via play-by-post on the forums here? I was an old school AD&D'er back in the 70's and 80's that had to drop it due to time commitments when I got married and started a family. Discovered Pathfinder during an online RPG PBP event several years back; loved it and have been playing PFS here ever since. It won't be the same as a face-to-face group, but it might allow you to continue to play PF1 if you can't find another group.

There are many folk who've said they'll continue to play PF1 here online for the foreseeable future. I'm hoping that's the case; I participated in a couple of PF2 play test sessions and decided to stick with PF1...


Otha wrote:

MidSouthGuy, have you considered playing PF1 via play-by-post on the forums here? I was an old school AD&D'er back in the 70's and 80's that had to drop it due to time commitments when I got married and started a family. Discovered Pathfinder during an online RPG PBP event several years back; loved it and have been playing PFS here ever since. It won't be the same as a face-to-face group, but it might allow you to continue to play PF1 if you can't find another group.

There are many folk who've said they'll continue to play PF1 here online for the foreseeable future. I'm hoping that's the case; I participated in a couple of PF2 play test sessions and decided to stick with PF1...

I have done a few play by post campaigns, and it just wasn't the same as a face to face group. If that's all I can do to keep playing the game I enjoy then I absolutely will, but as of right now I see that option as basically a last resort.


In between, there's always virtual tabletop. Broadens the group pool to basically everywhere instead of just the immediate area.


MidsouthGuy wrote:

What I'm really feeling down about is that my group will soon be disbanding, and now I will have to struggle to find a group playing the game that I actually want to play. Finding people that played Pathfinder instead of 5e was difficult when I had to do it a few years ago. Finding a group that plays PF1 now is going to be next to impossible. Sure, there are groups still playing older games, but they are usually made up of friends who have been playing together for years and generally aren't looking for new players. The lack of content, limited customization, number caps, and arbitrary restrictions in PF2 and 5e kill any hope of having fun for me if I try playing those. Jumping ship to a different system that I actually enjoy just puts me back in the same boat of struggling to find people who want to play something other than 5e. So now I will have to spend an unreasonable length of time seeking a new group that's playing what I like the most, play/run a system that I genuinely don't enjoy, or stop gaming altogether.

And that SUCKS.

Living in the UK I have literally never found a game of pathfinder or group pre-existing

I only get to play if I’m GM and then I’m not playing.

For a brief glorious 6 months at uni I had a group and gosh what a joy that was. But even then it was only because I reached out to several gaming societies at uni and asked if any knew of pathfinder and a couple people turned up.

Dark Archive

I seem to have easier time because I dislike playing live and prefer playing online with mic :p It isn't super hard to find online group, though you might take a while.

Anyhoo, geez, this thread is depressing to read and I say that as person who plays both 1e and isn't against trying out 2e or playing both in future :P

It does also seem bit arbitrary to me. Like some people feel like instantly quitting the system just because there won't be new releases any longer despite the fact there is so much content that there is no way they have ever used all of them? Kinda feels weird to hear groups are being disbanded. But yeah, I can understand the pain of wanting to find pathfinder group, but everyone plays 5e. Like that is the part that depresses me, that people would quit playing system they have played for years because edition is over regardless how much of material they have even used

(I can't say I really fully understand the nostalgia for 3.5 because everything I heard about it is stuff like "Spotting and searching different skills" or "Why are half orcs so underwhelming")


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CorvusMask wrote:
It does also seem bit arbitrary to me. Like some people feel like instantly quitting the system just because there won't be new releases any longer despite the fact there is so much content that there is no way they have ever used all of them? Kinda feels weird to hear groups are being disbanded. But yeah, I can understand the pain of wanting to find pathfinder group, but everyone plays 5e. Like that is the part that depresses me, that people would quit playing system they have played for years because edition is over regardless how much of material they have even used

Playing for me is a very small part of the hobby. I don’t have kids but most of my gaming group do. That means I’m lucky to play two-three hours in a week.

The bulk of my hobby is really preparing for those few hours and a big part of what maintains the enthusiasm for me is the releases, the previews, the forum chatter and debates. PF1 is going to lose a lot of that and regardless of what system I prefer playing, the fact is the play part is a relatively small component of what I get out of the hobby.

Dark Archive

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I mean, I understand quitting hobbies because work or family takes too much time, but I thought they said that groups were going to disband because they arbitrarily decided that ending of edition means they need to change edition as well or change to 5e? That is what seems depressing to me

...I guess I just don't really understand idea of losing enthusiasm for gaming or playing because there isn't news anymore? Like, sure I get hyped for new product and new news, but I consider that seperate from playing and running games. I'd feel as excited running pathfinder as if I run D&D 2e or obscure system nobody ever plays like numenera(I say this as very sad numenera gm who never gets any players for it :'D)

Is it part of some sort of peer pressure thing or social culture that I have hard time grasping? To me playing and running games is biggest part of the hobby and always has been...

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