I completely agree.
I mean, I understand quitting hobbies because work or family takes too much time, but I thought they said that groups were going to disband because they arbitrarily decided that ending of edition means they need to change edition as well or change to 5e? That is what seems depressing to me
...I guess I just don't really understand idea of losing enthusiasm for gaming or playing because there isn't news anymore? Like, sure I get hyped for new product and new news, but I consider that seperate from playing and running games. I'd feel as excited running pathfinder as if I run D&D 2e or obscure system nobody ever plays like numenera(I say this as very sad numenera gm who never gets any players for it :'D)
Is it part of some sort of peer pressure thing or social culture that I have hard time grasping? To me playing and running games is biggest part of the hobby and always has been...
Id run lots if I could. My players can barely manage 3 hours a werk though.
That leaves me twiddling my thumbs in the intervening days. There's only so many times I can read a PF1 book though and I'm sure there'll be fewer and fewer rules discussions to read.
Gaming has shifted in my case - not by choice but rather through getting older. Ongoing support and debate is what I have so I'll follow where that is.
I honestly never paid any attention to new releases I just get suddenly caught by surprise when there’s a cool new spell or something.
The reason I’m sad is because a small circle will get smaller as people leave PF1 for whatever reason.
I also tried making a PF2 character and I got overwhelmed again. Although I do have a habit of doing all from 1-20 when I make a character.
Perhaps when I get the book, it’ll work.
I will still play pf1e, but I doubt I will gm anything more than short games ever again from it.
As someone who was running 3.0 back in 2001 and has been running some form of 3.x from then onwards it may put me in a different space than some of the others here though.
Also helps thst in recent years I have become hugely system flexible and intentionally learn/run multiple new systems each year to improve my game design knowledge and gm skill.
I will likely be playing pf1e for years to come though, I only recently managed to convince a GM to run with pf1e rather than 3.5 -laughs-
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I’ll continue to play and GM PF1/PFS via PBP here on the forums as long as there are players. Playing face to face locally isn’t an option as there are no groups around here that I’m aware of. I won’t be making the jump to PF2; wasn’t a fan during the play test sessions I was in and the official release kept most of the things I disliked intact.
Kinda ironic in a way. From my early RPG days, my favorite character to play has always been an Elf Ranger whose preferred weapon is a longbow (PF1’s Ranger has been my favorite version). To me PF2 has nerfed all three, the Elf, the Ranger, and the longbow. I tried it out in the play test, didn’t feel like I was playing a ranger; built one with the official rules when it was released but had no desire to play it...
I hope PF1 has a long PBP life...if it dries up before I’m ready to give up PBP, I’ll probable go to 5e. While I don’t like it as much as PF1, I like it better than PF2 and its rangers at least feel like rangers to me...
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Feeling a little sad as well as I continue working through 2e. Not liking a majority so far. Multiclassing, spells, etc. To me it feels they took alot from 5e but didn't make it better. They could have taken the saves from 5e. That would have been a nice change. Most likely will continue to buy the 1st edition mini books and play with what 3pp bring out and start converting to 5e. Although on a bright side, this gives me a reason to try a level less game. Thanks for listening to me rant. So much anticipation and I feel it was dashed.
Feeling a little sad as well as I continue working through 2e. Not liking a majority so far. Multiclassing, spells, etc. To me it feels they took alot from 5e but didn't make it better. They could have taken the saves from 5e. That would have been a nice change. Most likely will continue to buy the 1st edition mini books and play with what 3pp bring out and start converting to 5e. Although on a bright side, this gives me a reason to try a level less game. Thanks for listening to me rant. So much anticipation and I feel it was dashed.
+1
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Things feel even more sad here at Spain. Our translated version barely scratched the surface (we still have hope Ultimate Magic is published at some point this year).
We only have 9 of the 24 Adventure Paths officially published in a language I can comfortably GM to my friends or any average gaming group in the country. No module has ever been translated (besides the free RPG day ones).
The licensing company (Devir) has already stated they are stopping the translation process to focus on PF2 (I just talked with their translator coordinator as of yesterday). While I understand why they are following Paizo to PF2, I despise our luck that we are losing all the good content you have enjoyed through the years.
The depressing feeling is even higher when you know Ironfang Invasion, Ruins of Azlant, Iron Gods, Reign of Winter or Tyrant's Grasp is not being released in a way you can feasibly play at the table.
It gets even deeper when you think about the fact Pathfinder is way better established here than D&D5, whom only recently allowed translations.
I do believe we still have enough translated APs to easily endure it for a couple of years. But as it happens to you one of my groups is already splitting up between going to PF2 or jumping to D&D5 as we finish the last book of Crimson Throne. And so far its winning D&D5 as that's the preference of our GM.
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I say this without any bias.... I genuinely don't think PF2 will have the required longevity for Paizo.
In the short - medium term it will be profitable as it will keep a sufficiently high % of its client base and they will in turn buy up the books as they get released. However, I think Paizo is counting on getting back customers from D&D5.... and I just can't see that happening. D&D5 hits the "plug in and play" market perfectly and that seems to be where the market is going.
In short.... the market can only handle 1 game being properly successful.... any others will just be fighting for leftovers. D&D5 has the enormous advantage of being backed by Hasbro.
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In short.... the market can only handle 1 game being properly successful.... any others will just be fighting for leftovers. D&D5 has the enormous advantage of being backed by Hasbro.
On the one hand, I remember a time when GURPS was doing well enough, to be considered 'the other game' and later, when it was Vampire, so I think it's possible for there to be two 'big games' doing okay for themselves on the market. (Then again, it depend on your definition of 'properly successful.' Depends on how many mouths to feed they have over there at Paizo these days. What was ragingly successful when they were half the size, just isn't going to keep the lights on and bellies full, these days.)
On the other hand, it's gonna be a fight for PF2.0. It's got to be streamlined and 'fast to play' enough to attract new players, who aren't going to want Hero 5th edition / Star Fleet Battles level entry rules. And yet it's got to be familiar enough to fans of PF1.0 to not lose too many of those older customers. That line is going to be in different places, for different folk, obviously.
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There is no market for PF2. It was written to appeal to casual players playing Dungeons & Dragons. Those players won't be in the hobby long enough to migrate to Pathfinder.
For all I know there is a single Spanish version, and still they are struggling with that one as they barely have resources to translate the main line of books and adventures (the RPG and AP lines). Ultimate Magic has been for 2 years on the making now for example. The main problem is the RPG line is perpetually making loses in comparison with their board-games line which is quite profitable. They keep telling me they make it for love to roleplaying and desire to bring it around the country. But of course, it is not among their priorities when promoting it, solving client needs, or ensuring the quality of the final product. They don't have a release schedule, and when they have given any release date they have missed it (except for the APs which they are doing a better job, at least at large cities). They pay so little attention they don't even have a full catalogue of what have they released; their official Pathfinder page is missing Ultimate Combat and the pocket editions, and half the published APs for example.
From talks with their translations coordinator I know they make a great effort to use neutral Spanish, but that is very complicated as there is no such a thing, specially when you go to a specific field as medieval themes and fantasy monsters.
What names appear on your Core book for the translators?
I'm glad to be off the merry-go-round and have no desire to keep up with the new PF2 releases. I can focus on running the games I have and making them as rich as possible.
It's a relief.
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Id run lots if I could. My players can barely manage 3 hours a werk though.
That leaves me twiddling my thumbs in the intervening days. There's only so many times I can read a PF1 book though and I'm sure there'll be fewer and fewer rules discussions to read.
Gaming has shifted in my case - not by choice but rather through getting older. Ongoing support and debate is what I have so I'll follow where that is.
So what you're missing is human contact, socialization... you miss spending more time with people, in regards to this game? Unfortunately as we get older all of us are going to run into this and it has nothing to do with the edition we're playing.
I can relate Steve-o-G because my own gaming has dwindled to 3 hours, 1/week. Because of folks personal lives, kids, significant others etc, we sometimes start late, finish early, or skip game nights altogether. I'm lucky to have the little table time I have.
All we can do is adapt though. Find other social outlets. Maybe dive into PF2 or D&D5e? If not, crack out some old board games and try to get folks together around that. I'm lucky to have a gaming company a HQ a few miles from my house and they have a store/gaming space that is open to the public. If I'm ever in need of a game I can drop into one of the open nights and play one of their games, jump into a new RPG, etc.
We must grow. We must strive for the things we want. If we want more friend time, we have to get after it. Maybe this edition change isn't a negative; maybe it's the kick in the pants we need to go make new friends, start new adventures?
I appreciate the suggestions. Sadly, I have something of a performance-anxiety hangup when it comes to RPGs in that I’ve been playing for forty years with the same half dozen people. There’s a nagging feeling I’m doing it wrong and I hate failing in public, in front of people I don’t know. It’s doubtful I’d actually be able to turn up to a game with new people, at this stage.
Hopefully I’ll be able to get over it as since that post things have got even worse and my gaming group has basically disbanded. I’ve been playing pretty much weekly or more since 1979 (never gone more than three or four weeks without a game, from memory) until now - I haven’t played in nearly two months. :(
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I have the same anxiety about playing with other groups. I've played with largely the same group for 30+ years, give or take a few folks. Our method of play works perfectly for us, but I worry that if I played in another group would I be doing things "wrong" or something. We have our own style and from what I read on here it wouldn't mesh especially well with most other folks' styles.
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I currently have 3 gaming groups. I've been playing with two of them almost since the release of PF. We now play mostly through Discord and Roll20. It really helps.
My advice is finding people interested in the hobby and use online tools to play. That's how I manage to play 2~3 games every week.
I even have invited some people to join us... But we use a lot of house-rules, 3pp and homebrew material, so most long-time players hesitate because they are used to different gameplay style and/or have a different view on game design/balance. I understand their PoV, but at the same time I can't help but think "Why don't you try it? You're not playing anything! What do you have to lose?".
Paizo not releasing new books doesn't bother me. There's still a lot of material out there, specially with 3pp and homebrew included. In fact, one of our GM creates homebrew all the time as a hobby and the groups help him playtest and balance it. It's a lot of fun!
Besides... Honestly... Paizo hasn't exactly impressed me with their non-AP releases for a while now.
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And if I (or my groups) get tired of PF1, I'll just play 5e instead.
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Nothing good last forever...glad my gaming group is still playing Pathfinder 1st edition.
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I'm still weirded out by comparing it to 5e because games don't really feel anything alike after playing both of them.
Like, only thing in common is really the streamlining, but they are very different games otherwise.
Then again, I find the "if I wanted to play 5e, I'd just play 5e" attitude weird as well, because 5e isn't actually that good system in my opinion. I mean, its fun and good for beginners, but you very quickly run into the lack of customization problem when playing multiple campaigns in row.
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That's pretty rough, but also pretty system agnostic in its roughness. No GM-based system will protect you from a fickle GM.
I suggest taking a break, then maybe trying another group, or at least another GM.
But then, if I can't go back one version of the game, how can I retrain myself to move forward either?
There's nothing wrong with finding something you like and strongly preferring it. I - for instance - strongly prefer my wife. I don't care about whatever new shiny might be dangled. This is what I like.
That said, if you're forced into change, where there aren't PF1 games near you and you can't organize one, it's adapt or die. If your favorite restaurant closes, then you have to spend some time finding what would've been your second-favorite.
Just do it.
For us, we're mostly sticking with PF1 for the next several/many years. One sub-group is dabbling with PF2 set in Eberron, which may work out well given that setting is significantly less powerful-feeling, and matches the obliteration of spellcasting classes that happened in this edition.
@ Mark Hoover 300
Your not the only one that feels that way about 3.5.
Looking at the PF 1E Paladin vs the 3.5. their is no reason to play a Paladin in 3.5 past level 10. Hell nothing past level 6 imo. Beyond higher level spells, more uses of both Smite evil and Remove disease and so bonuses to hit. Compare it to the PF version and the 3.5 is a major downgrade to the class. Same thing with some other classes such as the Bard and Barbarian once again the PF versions to myself are a major upgrade. Why would I at least want to play weaker versions of the core classes.
As well I had the same issues with the DM that you had as well as the unwanted bonus of the DM wife playing in the group and let's just say he was not impartial in his rulings when it came to his wife.
To say that I'm conflicted about the new edition would be a gross understatement.
I've been playing and running PF1 for about 6 years now, and there's still a lot of content I haven't touched yet. And that's just counting my personal collection, which is not small, but easily would be dwarfed by any of you who do subscriptions.
My home game is currently on hiatus because of a combination of scheduling headaches and general GM burnout, and I'm not sure when (or even if) we'll resume the game. But I'm slowing growing more and more convinced that whether we finish it or not, it will end up being the last long-term PF campaign I run--or at the very least, the last completely homebrewed one. This one was WAY ambitious, but PF has a lot of crunch to juggle, and we're not even close to high levels or mythic tiers yet.
I'm also very active in PFS, including GMing regularly. I'm still enjoying that a great deal, though now that there will be no more new PFS1 material, it's getting harder and harder to find things that enough of us regulars haven't played before. That recent endowment of replays is very welcome because of that, but we're acutely aware that it's finite. And we finally have a small but critical mass of players with Seeker-level PCs, which also gives us more options.
Perhaps ironically, the close of PF1 has seen a rise in interest in Starfinder Society at our FLGS. Many of the regulars are undecided about PF2, or flat out not interested, but SF has been out for a while now, so many will gladly play that if it means they can still game each week.
I have now played just enough PF2 to get my first PC to 2nd level, and will gladly play more if we get enough interest--and GMs--to keep it going at the store. But the size of the rulebook is daunting, as is the prospect of trying to keep two editions of the same system straight in my head. (Because I certainly won't stop playing PF1 anytime soon--especially if I can get my home game restarted.)
For now, I'm willing to play 2e enough to see if I'm going to enjoy it long-term, but I'm not in any hurry to learn it well enough to feel comfortable GMing it. I was recently persuaded to run SF for the first time, but mastering TWO new systems with that level of crunch at the same time is, I'm afraid, a bit beyond my current processing capacity.
In our household, my teenaged daughter is the one most excited about 2e. She hasn't read much of the book yet beyond what she needed to build her first couple of characters, but she's already commented on elements she recognizes from PF1, SF, and D&D 5E. Those are also her favorite 3 RPGs, so that's high praise.
Sigh..........
So long old friend........
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I can definitely say it feels like something has died, which feels a bit of a shame, like there was still potential there. However, I can fully see why paizo's would want to move on after all theses years. It's a clean start for them, and overtime there has been a lot of complaints about those old rules.
I really just didn't like pathfinder 2e. I could go on forever on how I hated the double cost of proficiency and skill feats, and I just hated the new magic system. Further I actually feel that the new action system, isn't all that great.
But what do I know, absolutely nothing that's what. This is what people wanted so paizo's provided it. It makes sense. Hey, if I didn't have a full-time job and other things in my life, I would grab a few like-minded individuals and start a pathfinder 1.5. But, I just can't think of anyway to fit it into my scheduled. Plus, my ideas tend to be a little out there, if anyone read the ideas I posted during last years play-test.
What can I say, I guess all good things must come to an end. And, now I got to head out to work, sigh.
I wonder what the legal ramifications of creating a PF1.5 would be. Obviously it couldn't use the Pathfinder name or any Paizo licensed content, but you could just make it compatible.
It would fill a niche for players who don't like PF2e or don't want to move on. Or are like me, and enjoy PF2e but are in love with PF1e.
That said, you wouldn't be able to use Golarion as a setting.
I'm pretty sure that at least a few 3pp publishers are creating PF1e content and have their own settings.
The Porphyria RPG is essentially PF 1.5. You should give it a look if that's something you're interested in.
Hey, Mark Hoover, if your players like Skill Checks, just get a copy of the Skill Check Handbook and start adding them into your game.
I have too many adventures to run before I even consider converting to Pathfinder second edition. Since I run my own games, I dictate which system I use, so that is not a problem. Both of the GMs I play with are still willing to run Pathfinder 1E, so I can keep playing it for now.
I have too many modules and adventure paths that I'd like to play or run at some time or another. I'm just now starting a Midgard based campaign for one of my groups and we're discussing our next campaign which will be based in the Lost Lands setting with Rappan Athuk. There are at least two years of content already planned out ahead of me. Something like Rappan Athuk can be run for years.
Been a little sad about the dusk of 1st edition but my group still has five or six adventure paths to go through plus all the 3rd party content.
And well i still need to hunt down a few books i want physically, alas things like goblins of golarian will probably always allude me also skulls and shackles since both have sky rocketed in second hand prices.
Maybe in a few years we will migrate to 2nd edition, but till then I'll haunt these forums and other pathfinder boards when i can't figure a character build or such.
The one benefit I can see in all of this. I can picking up books I missed, mostly 3rd party ones, at discount too. Not only the sales going on, but also private sellers on Ebay. So books I passed on for others over the years, now I have a chance to get those books as well.