Rough Rider - Goblin Ancestry Feat


Rules Discussion


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I have a question about how the Rough Rider First level Goblin Ancestry Feat is supposed to work.

It grants the Ride feat as a bonus feat, and it seemed to be saying that the 'intent' behind it is to open up the ability to allow goblins to be riding creatures that are thematic to them in their lore. It allows you to pick a Wolf animal companion, even if the creature would normally require the mount feature. It doesn't grant the mount property on the companion however.

My question, and issue instead becomes the question of technically according to the rules, wolf animal companions begin as small creatures, and riding a creature, the creature must be one size larger than you. Thus, it appear that you can't choose a wolf to ride, until you can get to the upgraded version of a animal companion, unless the intent of the Rough Rider was to allow a small goblin to ride a small wolf as an exception. If it wasn't intended, why was it granted as a 1st level feat and not a higher level feat such as where enhanced animal companions become available?

What was intended?

Past what was intended, what would be the ramifications of allowing a goblin to take an animal companion wolf and ride it, if you allow them to do this with rough rider feat. The companion remains small size, but as part of the conditions of the feat it would allow the goblin to ride it, within the normal restrictions of riding an animal without the mount trait. Is there any real significant balance ramification of allowing that, to enable that sort of low level character concept that should be viable? Is there a reason the rule couldn't enable them to ride the wolf?


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Loreguard wrote:

I have a question about how the Rough Rider First level Goblin Ancestry Feat is supposed to work.

It grants the Ride feat as a bonus feat, and it seemed to be saying that the 'intent' behind it is to open up the ability to allow goblins to be riding creatures that are thematic to them in their lore. It allows you to pick a Wolf animal companion, even if the creature would normally require the mount feature. It doesn't grant the mount property on the companion however.

My question, and issue instead becomes the question of technically according to the rules, wolf animal companions begin as small creatures, and riding a creature, the creature must be one size larger than you. Thus, it appear that you can't choose a wolf to ride, until you can get to the upgraded version of a animal companion, unless the intent of the Rough Rider was to allow a small goblin to ride a small wolf as an exception. If it wasn't intended, why was it granted as a 1st level feat and not a higher level feat such as where enhanced animal companions become available?

What was intended?

Past what was intended, what would be the ramifications of allowing a goblin to take an animal companion wolf and ride it, if you allow them to do this with rough rider feat. The companion remains small size, but as part of the conditions of the feat it would allow the goblin to ride it, within the normal restrictions of riding an animal without the mount trait. Is there any real significant balance ramification of allowing that, to enable that sort of low level character concept that should be viable? Is there a reason the rule couldn't enable them to ride the wolf?

It grants a specific, thematic level 1 general feat (Ride), which is already roughly why it belongs as a level 1 ancestry feat. Most ancestries won't get their first general feat until level 3, so that's potentially earlier than otherwise possible (humans are the main exception). It's also an access feat that helps for certain conditions later: It grants access to an option that you might otherwise not have, say if you've chosen to play a Champion with a Divine Steed, or for the Cavalier in the playtest which may one day be printed in 2E.

For an animal companion you want to ride, you're probably better off with a pony up until you can get a mature animal companion, but Rough Rider still grants Ride, which works with literally any mount and specifically helps with non-companions. Riding dogs are 4 gp, so a level 1 character can start with one, and the Ride feat makes it much more playable (it will act on your turn like a minion, and you'll auto-succeed at giving it commands, so you can keep it from fleeing when you enter combat even though it's not combat-trained).

As a quick aside, the Bestiary describes riding dogs as "ferocious in battle" but the core rulebook doesn't describe them as combat-trained, so your mileage may vary a little by GM there. They're much cheaper than the warpony/warhorse, so it's not exactly "fair" to consider them combat-trained, but the core book also doesn't have a combat-trained option. Goblin dogs don't have a price in the core book, unfortunately, but that might also be an interesting option. Any option that gets you a combat-trained mount takes Ride from "required to keep your mount from fleeing immediately if it beats your initiative" to "sure is nice not having to roll nature checks."

So if I wanted to play a mounted, champion goblin riding a wolf, I'd think this feat would be pretty useful for the majority of my goblin's career, with like 3 levels (between 3rd and 6th, when you can make it mature) where it's kind of dumb that a wolf companion is the wrong size. I'd either suck it up and ride a pony, keep riding whatever mundane dog or goblin dog or whatever I had been riding until my new wolf pup was big enough, or try negotiating a little with the GM.

Everything else was RAW, but your last question was what was the impact if the GM allowed the exception in riding. It's really easy to handwave the riding size restriction for a couple levels, since there's almost 0 difference between small/medium in the rules and it's sad to be off theme. If I were the GM, I'd very likely allow it. It'd save 3 levels of thematic inconsistency/workarounds at basically zero cost unless there was someone else in the party (say, a gnome druid with a bear) that might feel left out that they don't get a rules exception.

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