Iron Gods in 2e?

[oconnor0]

I've been running Iron Gods, converted from PF1e to the Playtest rules. We're switching to 2e this week. What public conversion/homebrew work have people done in converting the 1e technological stuff (guns, items, spells, etc.) to playtest/2e?

Thanks.

[Renraku]

oconnor0 wrote:

I've been running Iron Gods, converted from PF1e to the Playtest rules. We're switching to 2e this week. What public conversion/homebrew work have people done in converting the 1e technological stuff (guns, items, spells, etc.) to playtest/2e?

Thanks.

I'm working on the same AP conversion. My group is in book 4 so it's a real pain. I'll post what I can slap together here, but wanted to let you know your not alone in the technology troubles.

[Lord Fyre]

Renraku wrote:

oconnor0 wrote:

I've been running Iron Gods, converted from PF1e to the Playtest rules. We're switching to 2e this week. What public conversion/homebrew work have people done in converting the 1e technological stuff (guns, items, spells, etc.) to playtest/2e?

Thanks.

I'm working on the same AP conversion. My group is in book 4 so it's a real pain. I'll post what I can slap together here, but wanted to let you know your not alone in the technology troubles.

I will be Staring this AP very soon (after my group suffered a two year hiatus. :( ).

I want to see how the Technology Feats are handled, so that I can have a start on converting the campaign traits to backgrounds.

[Lord Fyre]

Lord Fyre wrote:

Renraku wrote:

oconnor0 wrote:

I've been running Iron Gods, converted from PF1e to the Playtest rules. We're switching to 2e this week. What public conversion/homebrew work have people done in converting the 1e technological stuff (guns, items, spells, etc.) to playtest/2e?

Thanks.

I'm working on the same AP conversion. My group is in book 4 so it's a real pain. I'll post what I can slap together here, but wanted to let you know your not alone in the technology troubles.

I will be Staring this AP very soon (after my group suffered a two year hiatus. :( ).

I want to see how the Technology Feats are handled, so that I can have a start on converting the campaign traits to backgrounds.

One issue with converting the feats will be the change in how skills work. Knowledge(Engineering) was a prerequisite for almost all of these skills, but the Lore skill doesn't work the same way that Knowledges did.

[oconnor0]

My in-progress homebrew/conversion is available at: Google Docs I'm fairly happy with the conversion of the backgrounds from the Iron Gods Player Guide to 2e.

Some things I'm stuck on:

How does technology fit into the game?

The Technologist feat become kind of a feat requirement for dealing with technology in 1e.

Some thoughts I have about how to deal with it in 2e:

• 1. The feat works as in 1e. You are untrained in all skills when the subject is technological.
  
• 2. Without the feat, you treat your proficiency bonus as 1 step lower when the subject is technological (trained is like untrained, expert is like trained, etc.)
  
• 3. Without the feat, you suffer a -2 penalty when the subject is technological.
  
• 4. Ignore the feat and let players interact with technology without penalty.
  

#4 is essentially what I did in book 1 during the playtest. This is an adventure about technology, so it worked fine. But I do like the feeling of having the technology be otherworldy and so require some investment to really grasp.

How do guns work?

There's the thread about guns but nothing really surfaced. Touch AC is gone in 2e which is fine. But how to differentiate them from other ranged weapons. My gut says give them a benefit and a drawback compared to crossbows.

I like the idea of handguns having Deadly or Fatal and a new Close Ranged weapon trait that does something like increase the penalty due to range to -3 per range increment rather than -2. Not sure about longarms; though Volley would work, I suppose.

What's a simple rubric for converting magic items to technological items?

Trying to convert 1e items to 2e is beyond my ability at this point. It seems simpler to convert 2e magic items to 2e technological items. Some of these are kind of simple, just reskin the item, so an elixir of life becomes a single-use nanite hypogun (or something).

But the more complex ones are conversions like turning bracers of armor into technological armor. My instinct is to make the armor take batteries (and so can power down after a certain number of hits or combats or days or whatever); but then I'd like it to have an upside or the players just sell the technological item and buy the magical one. The technological one could be cheaper (since it eats money), but that's a little boring?

[Nicolas Paradise]

I too am interested in this but seeing as I run 2 games am not sure I have the time to work on conversion.

As for knowledge Engineering I don't see why lore wouldn't work. Technologist can be a skill feat that gives craft new uses and allows for the tech crafting feats later.

Most items are built off of existing magic items like grenades being similar to cloud/fog spells and fireball.

The real hard conversion is guns. In a system without TAC they need a huge rebalance. And tech guns not needing to reload often should make recharging from a battery 3-actions.

Also Androffan is definitely an uncommon language and most people who don't get it from a campaign background would need to wait to grab it from a general feat.

[Lord Fyre]

oconnor0 wrote:

My in-progress homebrew/conversion is available at: Google Docs I'm fairly happy with the conversion of the backgrounds from the Iron Gods Player Guide to 2e.

This is quite good, though I might want to go in a different direction for some of these backgrounds.

oconnor0 wrote:

Some things I'm stuck on:

How does technology fit into the game?

The Technologist feat become kind of a feat requirement for dealing with technology in 1e.

Some thoughts I have about how to deal with it in 2e:

1. The feat works as in 1e. You are untrained in all skills when the subject is technological.

Much as I hate "feat taxes", this would preserve the original intent.

oconnor0 wrote:

2. Without the feat, you treat your proficiency bonus as 1 step lower when the subject is technological (trained is like untrained, expert is like trained, etc.)

This option would allow the characters to not be completely screwed until they can afford the feat.

oconnor0 wrote:

How do guns work?

There's the thread about guns but nothing really surfaced. Touch AC is gone in 2e which is fine.

IMHO, that's a feature, not a bug.

oconnor0 wrote:

What's a simple rubric for converting magic items to technological items?

Not a small problem, and I will need to study the rules to figure out the equivalences.

[oconnor0]

Lord Fyre wrote:

oconnor0 wrote:

My in-progress homebrew/conversion is available at: Google Docs I'm fairly happy with the conversion of the backgrounds from the Iron Gods Player Guide to 2e.

This is quite good, though I might want to go in a different direction for some of these backgrounds.

Feel free to leave comments on the doc or here if you have things you would change or think can be improved.

[Lord Fyre]

oconnor0 wrote:

Lord Fyre wrote:

oconnor0 wrote:

My in-progress homebrew/conversion is available at: Google Docs I'm fairly happy with the conversion of the backgrounds from the Iron Gods Player Guide to 2e.

This is quite good, though I might want to go in a different direction for some of these backgrounds.

Feel free to leave comments on the doc or here if you have things you would change or think can be improved.

I would be inclined to convert some feats from the Technology Guide. I am looking at both Technologist (for Local Ties) and Scavenger's Luck (for Numerian Archeologist).

I need to look at the PF2 feats to figure out the best way to approach the Robot Slayer background. I am thinking of modifying the Robot Bane feat to be a version of the dwarven Ancestral Hatred racial feat, limiting it to Robots (and Androids) - but making it a general feat. I looked at the dwarven Giant Bane feat, but that is too far from the description of the original trait (being defensive rather then offensive).

[oconnor0]

Vengeful Hatred for dwarves is a 1st level ancestry feat that gives a +1 circumstance bonus per weapon die on damage rolls against one of drow, duergar, giant, or orc. So there is a precedent for a Robot Bane style feat, but it's an ancestry feat and not from a background, and since none of the backgrounds improve combat damage I wanted to avoid that.

Vengeful Hatred could be modified to allow robots or constructs to be chosen as the hated enemy so that dwarves could keep that damage bonus, but that feels a little weird.

[Lord Fyre]

oconnor0 wrote:

Vengeful Hatred for dwarves is a 1st level ancestry feat that gives a +1 circumstance bonus per weapon die on damage rolls against one of drow, duergar, giant, or orc. So there is a precedent for a Robot Bane style feat, but it's an ancestry feat and not from a background, and since none of the backgrounds improve combat damage I wanted to avoid that.

Vengeful Hatred could be modified to allow robots or constructs to be chosen as the hated enemy so that dwarves could keep that damage bonus, but that feels a little weird.

The Robot Slayer background should not be limited to Dwarves. :)

But, adapting Vengeful Hatred (it was "Ancestral Hatred" in the playtest, and I didn't change the name) is exactly what I would do.

Robot Bane would work exactly like the dwarven Vengeful Hatred, but would be limited to Robots and selectable by anyone as a general feat.

[oconnor0]

Lord Fyre wrote:

The Robot Slayer background should not be limited to Dwarves. :)

But, adapting Vengeful Hatred (it was "Ancestral Hatred" in the playtest, and I didn't change the name) is exactly what I would do.

Robot Bane would work exactly like the dwarven Vengeful Hatred, but would be limited to Robots and selectable by anyone as a general feat.

Yes, I didn't want to go down giving damage buffs from the background at this point. I expect there is a reason Paizo didn't do that with backgrounds in 2e and while I might be wrong, Robot Bane as a general or skill feat that grants a circumstance bonus to damage against robots feels inconsistent and perhaps too strong.

[Lord Fyre]

oconnor0 wrote:

Lord Fyre wrote:

The Robot Slayer background should not be limited to Dwarves. :)

But, adapting Vengeful Hatred (it was "Ancestral Hatred" in the playtest, and I didn't change the name) is exactly what I would do.

Robot Bane would work exactly like the dwarven Vengeful Hatred, but would be limited to Robots and selectable by anyone as a general feat.

Yes, I didn't want to go down giving damage buffs from the background at this point. I expect there is a reason Paizo didn't do that with backgrounds in 2e and while I might be wrong, Robot Bane as a general or skill feat that grants a circumstance bonus to damage against robots feels inconsistent and perhaps too strong.

We were discussing what I would do. (Technically, I won't get my books until tomorrow (FLGS) - and I can't take the time to read them 'til the weekend (Work).)

For the most part, I was looking to preserve the flavor text of the campaign trait. In my opinion, Titan Wrestler doesn't do a good job at that. A better option might be the Alertness feat (since it is about looking for robot based threats) and change the lore to Robot Lore.

But that leads to my other problem. Alertness, Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, and Iron Will don't appear to scale. :(